Author Topic: Brexit.  (Read 340151 times)

Captain Scarlet

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3705 on: December 08, 2017, 08:11:45 PM »
Foster says she was looking for more time for "more clarification" but May told her there was no more time and she was going with the text as it was.
In other words ya've had yar  fun Arlene now the big girls are going out to play.
That Frew is in some parallel universe.

Listening to the radio and commentators are saying they can't belive the DUP are saying there wasn't enogh time as their usual gig is to stall until the 11th hour and get what they want.
The fact that are talking like that means their hand was forced.

Also any tweets from Borris or any Brexiter or DUP person is surely just saving face and keeping up the stupid bluster that has us all where we are.
them mysterons are always killing me but im grand after a few days.sickenin aul dose all the same.

Dubh driocht

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3706 on: December 08, 2017, 08:18:57 PM »
Fair play to wee Leo and Big Simon. " You can have any kind of Brexit you want as long as it's green!" Indeed Fintan, indeed.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-ireland-has-just-saved-the-uk-from-the-madness-of-a-hard-brexit-1.3320096

yellowcard

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3707 on: December 08, 2017, 10:00:38 PM »
Foster says she was looking for more time for "more clarification" but May told her there was no more time and she was going with the text as it was.
In other words ya've had yar  fun Arlene now the big girls are going out to play.
That Frew is in some parallel universe.

Listening to the radio and commentators are saying they can't belive the DUP are saying there wasn't enogh time as their usual gig is to stall until the 11th hour and get what they want.
The fact that are talking like that means their hand was forced.

Also any tweets from Borris or any Brexiter or DUP person is surely just saving face and keeping up the stupid bluster that has us all where we are.

I also found it very curious that Foster said that she ran out of time. Sounds like the Tories were for steaming ahead regardless knowing full well that the DUP couldn't countenance the alternative of potentially running the risk of another general election.

vallankumous

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3708 on: December 09, 2017, 07:22:15 AM »


Vindicated in the sense that it will be a very watered down Brexit. However, it got to that place because of the hardline stance taken by Ireland - ie the guarantee of no border. However, no border can only be guaranteed if the 6 county regulations are aligned with the 26. Then the DUP stepped in and an untended consequence of this is that for the six counties to be aligned with the 26, the six need to be aligned with Great Britain. And for Britain to do that, Britain has to be back aligned with EU rules. The whole thing is self-referential. The UK did not arrive in this place through any strategic thinking but rather accidentally. If they want the Brexit they voted for, it's becoming clear that the six counties are a big problem. The agreement is written ambigiously enough that the border still ends up again in the Irish sea. That is perhaps the one area where the British side were not found wanting.



This is't the case. The hard line was engineered by the UK and the EU. Ireland had no knowledge of the whole set up. That's why the documents were leaked, the press conference called and the expected response by all interested parties in the UK were made.


It must have been a crazy week if we all accepted Monday was a massive day but have forgotten those events by Friday.
Nothing happened on Friday that wasn't planned before Monday morning.

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3709 on: December 09, 2017, 08:44:10 AM »
Judging by the Torygraph the Tory Brexit crowd lost.


Sub only but you get a good idea

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/08/brexit-deal-no-breakthrough-complete-capitulation/

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/08/british-people-will-control-dislike-brexit-deal/

 
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seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3710 on: December 09, 2017, 12:48:01 PM »
This is very good

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/1209/926089-brexit-negotiations/

"The DUP turned its guns on the Taoiseach, suggesting that Dublinís position could force Theresa May to walk away from the negotiations: "The Irish Republic would suffer far worse economically from no trade deal than the UK.

"Mr Varadkar may try to appear calm on the surface but he is playing a dangerous game ó not with us but with his own economy."

Christopher Montgomery, a former DUP Chief of Staff and a director of Friends of the Union, went on the BBC Radio 4 Today and the World at One programmes, claiming that Dublin had deliberately leaked the text and accusing this correspondent of misreporting events and causing the process to collapse."

The DUP lost.
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Syferus

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3711 on: December 09, 2017, 01:46:11 PM »


Vindicated in the sense that it will be a very watered down Brexit. However, it got to that place because of the hardline stance taken by Ireland - ie the guarantee of no border. However, no border can only be guaranteed if the 6 county regulations are aligned with the 26. Then the DUP stepped in and an untended consequence of this is that for the six counties to be aligned with the 26, the six need to be aligned with Great Britain. And for Britain to do that, Britain has to be back aligned with EU rules. The whole thing is self-referential. The UK did not arrive in this place through any strategic thinking but rather accidentally. If they want the Brexit they voted for, it's becoming clear that the six counties are a big problem. The agreement is written ambigiously enough that the border still ends up again in the Irish sea. That is perhaps the one area where the British side were not found wanting.



This is't the case. The hard line was engineered by the UK and the EU. Ireland had no knowledge of the whole set up. That's why the documents were leaked, the press conference called and the expected response by all interested parties in the UK were made.


It must have been a crazy week if we all accepted Monday was a massive day but have forgotten those events by Friday.
Nothing happened on Friday that wasn't planned before Monday morning.

Why do you continue to write your fan fiction of events?

vallankumous

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3712 on: December 09, 2017, 02:03:49 PM »


Why do you continue to write your fan fiction of events?

I'm having more fun than you.

omaghjoe

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3713 on: December 10, 2017, 07:02:30 AM »
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/1209/926089-brexit-negotiations/

Tony Connolly is a great read throughout this whole drama.

It seems to me from reading various things  this was the only thing that was added from Monday to Friday

"In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union"

The only question I have is what in the hell is the point of a trade deal now? They are staying in the single market and thats that!

Apart from Nigel none of the prominent Brexiteers appear to be pointing this out. Have they not noticed this text or are they are just shit scarred of losing their jobs with the Tory civil war May's departure would cause, all admist the backdrop  another election? Maybe May played a blinder by putting them in her cabinet.

As for the DUP Are they in the same boat as the hard Brexiteers? Seems like May just told them to go te f**k! The prospect of a Labour governmemt may just have made May more powerful than ever and it looks like somewhere in the week she realised it!

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3714 on: December 10, 2017, 07:50:26 AM »
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/1209/926089-brexit-negotiations/

Tony Connolly is a great read throughout this whole drama.

It seems to me from reading various things  this was the only thing that was added from Monday to Friday

"In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union"

The only question I have is what in the hell is the point of a trade deal now? They are staying in the single market and thats that!

Apart from Nigel none of the prominent Brexiteers appear to be pointing this out. Have they not noticed this text or are they are just shit scarred of losing their jobs with the Tory civil war May's departure would cause, all admist the backdrop  another election? Maybe May played a blinder by putting them in her cabinet.

As for the DUP Are they in the same boat as the hard Brexiteers? Seems like May just told them to go te f**k! The prospect of a Labour governmemt may just have made May more powerful than ever and it looks like somewhere in the week she realised it!

The costs of Brexit have been revealed.  The Tories are more afraid of the voters than they are of the Brexit fruitcakes.
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omaghjoe

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3715 on: December 10, 2017, 08:20:23 AM »
Brexiters feel shit. . . Remainers feel a small bit of relief.

Not exactly a victory for anyone!!

The sign of a good compromise.
Both sides were not that far apart, were they? i.e. apart from the DUP being stuck somewhere in the old testament. The brexiteer side had no special agenda to have it any other way. The minor complicated factor which stalled this particular issue was that the DUP have some status in Westminster. And like most every other related brexit issue, the Brits hadn't put much forethought into it, toss and coin merchants versus chess grandmasters.
In most every other aspect of this divorce from the EU, the Brits have taken a hammering, nicely illustrated by SeŠn Clarke in The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/jul/20/where-are-we-up-to-in-these-brexit-talks

This is a clinker

I did come round to the British viewpoint on some things. For instance, I didn't insist on the UK covering the removal costs of the departing EU agencies. 😂 😂 😂
Michel Barnier 8 December 

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3716 on: December 10, 2017, 03:36:10 PM »
Since  the referendum there have been zero deals. Brexit was never even planned. There was popular revulsion at the inequality of the UK economy and opportunistic politicians jumped on the bandwagon but Brexit was never more than a fantasy.
This week May surrendered all of her red lines.

I do not understand the DUP's campaign of lies against Coveney and Varadkar. I am reading a book by Fionnula O Connor called In search of  a state : catholics in northern Ireland. It is about 20 years old. Back then John hume observed how weak unionism was. Now it is deluded.
 
There will be a united Ireland with some kind of carve out for antrim and north Down and bits of Armagh. It doesn't make sense to piss off the Irish Government.

Kevin Maher on the DUP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ94BMDiyBU
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 04:06:46 PM by seafoid »
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T Fearon

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3717 on: December 10, 2017, 04:25:13 PM »
Amazed by the number of Southern accents in Newry shops just now boosting the British Exchequer! Patriotic to the core! Then there are still people who think they would willingly subsidise taking the North on by ending partition!😂😂😂

longballin

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3718 on: December 10, 2017, 04:29:52 PM »
Amazed by the number of Southern accents in Newry shops just now boosting the British Exchequer! Patriotic to the core! Then there are still people who think they would willingly subsidise taking the North on by ending partition!😂😂😂

It won't be decided by a few hungry shoppers in Newry

Syferus

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3719 on: December 10, 2017, 04:43:16 PM »
Amazed by the number of Southern accents in Newry shops just now boosting the British Exchequer! Patriotic to the core! Then there are still people who think they would willingly subsidise taking the North on by ending partition!😂😂😂

It won't be decided by a few hungry shoppers in Newry

I know they say you should feed the needy at Christmas but responding to that is a bit much, Longballin.