Author Topic: Brexit.  (Read 555588 times)

BennyCake

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #615 on: June 24, 2016, 04:50:48 PM »
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

That's like fans not being allowed to criticise their football team just because they didn't play professionally.

The working classes have spoken. They've had enough and hopefully more countries will follow.

Ulick

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #616 on: June 24, 2016, 04:55:57 PM »
We were talking about europe here and one fella is of the opinion that leaving europe still won't happen and Cameron leaving (the smart move) is not what Gove or Johnson would want as if say Johnson was elected leader he cannot go to the eu with a peoples mandate as he isn't technically the peoples choice and therefore he would need to hold a general election.

As before if Cameron had went forward he would have had the peoples mandate and with him leaving it messes their plans up.


Now if a general election was held and a party go in that was pro euro (labour) and judging by the back lash and people realising how bad things could get this could happen then they could come to an agreement not to leave the euro.

fingers crossed??

This isn't as outlandish as you might think. The Brits don't have a written Constitution and an ineffective upper house so their Parliament effectively makes the rules up as they go along. If a majority government of the day wanted to discount the result, or more likely have a rerun there's legally nothing to prevent it.

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #617 on: June 24, 2016, 04:57:19 PM »
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

That's like fans not being allowed to criticise their football team just because they didn't play professionally.

The working classes have spoken. They've had enough and hopefully more countries will follow.
nobody was consulted about QE or the reduction of rates to zero or the Anglo job or the failure of Osborne to get the deficit to zero.

The people have spoken, the b**tards...
And ordinary people will suffer
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vallankumous

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #618 on: June 24, 2016, 05:00:36 PM »
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

I may be wrong but does the constitution really say the north is Irish? I thought it was dropped in article 3 to allow for the GFA. And the dual citizenship is protected in the GFA not the constitution.

Either way anyone who refers to a piece of paper (passport) or legislation to confirm their indentity is as two dimensional as their facebook page.

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #619 on: June 24, 2016, 05:00:50 PM »
The City of London is f%cked. Thousands of jobs will be lost . Maybe they can be replaced with the 350 m...
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seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #620 on: June 24, 2016, 05:02:17 PM »
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

Anyone who thinks like that isnt Irish. Sad really.
I hate that attitude
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AZOffaly

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #621 on: June 24, 2016, 05:04:18 PM »
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

I may be wrong but does the constitution really say the north is Irish? I thought it was dropped in article 3 to allow for the GFA. And the dual citizenship is protected in the GFA not the constitution.

Either way anyone who refers to a piece of paper (passport) or legislation to confirm their indentity is as two dimensional as their facebook page.

The Consititution (article 19) states that it the birthright of anyone born on the island of Ireland to be part of the Irish nation.

vallankumous

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #622 on: June 24, 2016, 05:10:40 PM »

The Consititution (article 19) states that it the birthright of anyone born on the island of Ireland to be part of the Irish nation.

Did that not change in referendum on Irish Citizenship?

2004

AZOffaly

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #623 on: June 24, 2016, 05:12:28 PM »
I believe there was an addendum to include provision for children born to non-nationals, but as far as I am aware, the right of people born in the 6 counties to be considered part of the Irish nation, and Irish citizens, did not change.

The constitution currently states :

it is the entitlement and birthright of every person
born in the island of ireland, which includes its
islands and seas, to be part of the irish nation.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 05:16:38 PM by AZOffaly »

heganboy

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #624 on: June 24, 2016, 05:16:01 PM »
The City of London is f%cked. Thousands of jobs will be lost . Maybe they can be replaced with the 350 m...

Seafoid- very valid point. There's a reason London voted stay. Morgan Stanley have already come out and declared they are considering the move of their EU headquarters to Dublin. The timing of the Brexit at the same time as the UK is pressing global companies to pay more UK tax incentivizes these firms to move to the only remaining English speaking country remaining in the EU.

The economic shock to the whole of the UK of this decision is a long way away from being realized at this point. Scotland and Northern Ireland in particular are better off in the EU, as are England and Wales (not to mention Gibraltar) but more noticeably Scotland and NI.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity

vallankumous

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #625 on: June 24, 2016, 05:18:22 PM »
I believe there was an addendum to include provision for children born to non-nationals, but as far as I am aware, the right of people born in the 6 counties to be considered part of the Irish nation, and Irish citizens, did not change.

What about British Nationals?

Pretty sure it didn't specify.
If a child to Scottish Parents is born in Belfast they are not Irish Citizens unless proven in a court.
However, under the GFA the are entitled to Dual citizenship through lesislation.
I'm don't know how that works but seems to be the case.

I suppose the point is, that regardless of UK in or out of EU these issues are for Ireland and the UK and will always be.

As for your debate on facebook, it's nothing to get annoyed at in my opinion.


Harold Disgracey

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #626 on: June 24, 2016, 05:18:39 PM »
I wonder will Arlene be so smug when the likes of Citigroup up sticks and move to Dublin?

Ulick

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #627 on: June 24, 2016, 05:19:56 PM »
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

I may be wrong but does the constitution really say the north is Irish? I thought it was dropped in article 3 to allow for the GFA. And the dual citizenship is protected in the GFA not the constitution.

Either way anyone who refers to a piece of paper (passport) or legislation to confirm their indentity is as two dimensional as their facebook page.

The GFA guarantees more than dual citizenship, it also protects the right of all those born in the north to a single Irish citizenship (rather than dual citizenship) and as such to be legally no different from those born in the south. Constitution gives this right the underlying legal basis. Therefore those born in the north do not have to do anything (such as getting a passport) to prove their citizenship.

Rois

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #628 on: June 24, 2016, 05:22:18 PM »
In a way the Bretix vote is good for nationalism 20 years of the GFA has made the middle class nationalists soft on a united Ireland but this DUP sponsored breakup of the UK should go along way to firming that up again.

I think that point is very very accurate.  After disappointment and sadness this morning, my reaction is much firmly focussed on how little I have in common with the Out voters in England.

heganboy

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #629 on: June 24, 2016, 05:26:08 PM »
I wonder will Arlene be so smug when the likes of Citigroup up sticks and move to Dublin?

I'm not so sure that this is an immediate concern but definitely not he 5-7 year horizon


A much more immediate problem is the reality is that a lot of the companies who were very advanced in their plans to move to the north will stall out until the uncertainty is no longer a concern in whatever that should be. The markets and CFOs hate uncertainty and unpredictability.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity