Author Topic: Brexit.  (Read 551808 times)

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #225 on: June 15, 2016, 01:22:34 PM »
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP. The real issue is a broken economic system that serves the rich .
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seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #226 on: June 15, 2016, 01:26:19 PM »
Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.
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armaghniac

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #227 on: June 15, 2016, 01:34:47 PM »
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #228 on: June 15, 2016, 08:52:37 PM »
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.
history is a record of consequences which nobody was expecting
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yellowcard

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #229 on: June 15, 2016, 09:24:14 PM »
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.

I'd tend to agree with this but it begs the question, what the hell are Sinn Fein (the only all Ireland party) actually doing? No vision put forward for what re-unification would actually look like. They seriously need to get their house in order economically.

armaghniac

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #230 on: June 15, 2016, 09:32:13 PM »
I'd tend to agree with this but it begs the question, what the hell are Sinn Fein (the only all Ireland party) actually doing? No vision put forward for what re-unification would actually look like. They seriously need to get their house in order economically.


In the 26 counties, SF have gone for the pay for nothing vote, for whom fiscal credibility is not only not a necessity, but a turnoff. In the 6 counties a lot of them have a colonial mentality, where economics is asking London for money. They may be beginning to realise this, appointing Máirtín Ó Muilleoir to Finance in Stormont is a sign of some interest in the subject. They probably have a long game of some sort in mind, although like Armagh things might be be quite on schedule. Unfortunately, this Brexit thing is looking like they may have to tog out at the end of  next week and they haven't even figured out how to get to the ground.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

LeoMc

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #231 on: June 15, 2016, 09:54:21 PM »
Markets seem to be going south with a lot of money leaving the UK as he odds on Brecit shorten. Ironically this will be hutting the pensions of those older Pro-brexit voters.

Itchy

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #232 on: June 15, 2016, 11:08:42 PM »
Brexit will be great for Ireland. There will be some short term bumps but then the rest of the world will figure that we are the only English language country left in the EU which will net us unprecedented foreign investment. It will also be the beginning of the end of the U.K. Scotland will vote for independence and unionist will have a financial reason to consider a united Ireland within the EU.

OgraAnDun

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #233 on: June 15, 2016, 11:31:52 PM »
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.

I'd tend to agree with this but it begs the question, what the hell are Sinn Fein (the only all Ireland party) actually doing? No vision put forward for what re-unification would actually look like. They seriously need to get their house in order economically.


Last week they had a mini press conference I believe on their version of a united Ireland. The north will get to keep Stormont for a number of  years to let unionists integrate into an all Ireland state. Matt Carthy is chief strategist of this all Ireland vision group I believe.

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #234 on: June 16, 2016, 12:29:32 PM »
FT editorial but very few marginalised voters are likely to read it

. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/3748166e-3151-11e6-ad39-3fee5ffe5b5b.html

June 15, 2016 5:17 pm


Britain should vote to stay in the EU



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Historic plebiscite with far-reaching consequences for the continent



I

n seven days, the British will decide. The referendum on EU membership marks an historic moment. At stake is Britain’s often troubled relationship with Europe, but also the coherence of the west. A vote to withdraw would be irrevocable, a grievous blow to the post-1945 liberal world order. David Cameron’s referendum gamble has proved to be a futile attempt to heal divisions in the ruling Conservative party. The campaign has split the country. Emotions have trumped facts. Born-again populists rail against the establishment. “People in this country have had enough of experts,” declares Michael Gove, a leading Brexiter, justice secretary (and former education secretary).

This newspaper has supported British membership of the EU from the outset in 1973. The Financial Times does not favour membership of the single currency. It makes no economic sense. But opting out of the euro is quite different from opting out of the EU, which would seriously damage the UK economy. Constructive engagement is vital when Europe confronts threats from Islamist extremism, migration, Russian aggrandisement and climate change. These can only be tackled collectively.


The referendum campaign is a contest between competing values: between liberal internationalism and a pinched nationalism, between an open-trading system and marginalisation. This is why Britain’s allies, from Australia to Japan and the US, have unanimously supported Remain — and why Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump favour Brexit.

The debate has been depressingly transactional. The economic costs of withdrawal are substantial; but the Remain camp has indulged in pocketbook scaremongering. The Leave camp has been superficially patriotic, at heart mendacious. Britain does not contribute a net £350m a week to the EU budget. Savings will not go automatically to the National Health Service. Turkey has about as much chance of joining the EU by 2020 as Istanbul being renamed Constantinople in a revived Byzantine empire.


Turkey has as much chance of joining the EU as Istanbul being renamed Constantinople

To be sure, Leave’s focus on immigration resonates with voters. This may account for a tightening of the polls, to the point where Brexit is a real risk. The influx of EU migrants, far greater than successive governments predicted, has stirred fears about jobs, public services and British identity. “Take back control” in the name of democracy is a seductive slogan in the age of globalisation. Mr Cameron has yet to provide an adequate riposte.


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He joins a long line of British prime ministers, including Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair, who have failed to level with the British public. Membership of the EU and, crucially, the single European market, entails some transfer of sovereignty in return for an actual gain in power as part of a greater whole. The rewards are indisputable. Since Britain joined the EU in 1973, real gross domestic product per head has grown faster than in France, Germany and Italy. Thatcher’s labour reforms and the Bank of England’s independence were vital too. But membership of the single market has been a magnet for foreign direct investment, funding a bulging current account deficit and guaranteeing British jobs.


Leave has failed to spell out the serious risks of life outside the EU. Boris Johnson, the former mayor of London with one eye on Mr Cameron’s job, invokes a newfound freedom without the pettifogging rules of the single market. With one bound, Britain would become the Venice of the 21st century. In the real world, Britain would have to redefine fundamentally its relationship with the EU. An arrangement akin to Norway’s would require paying into the EU budget and accepting free movement of labour. Switzerland’s deal is even more cumbersome. Mr Gove invokes a model closer to Albania, Bosnia, Serbia and Ukraine, to deserved derision. The fallback — relying on World Trade Organisation rules — would involve tariffs on UK goods, a poor deal on services (vital for the City of London) and years of fraught negotiations. Britain would end up a rule-taker, not a rule-maker.

Britain’s seat at the table has allowed it to win big arguments in Brussels: on free trade, liberalisation of air travel and telecoms, and EU enlargement to central and eastern Europe. The UK has shaped membership to its needs, securing opt-outs from the euro and the Schengen agreement abolishing border controls. It retains control of income tax and corporate taxation. Education, skills and a skewed housing market hold the UK economy back, not a Brussels bureaucracy the size of Birmingham city council.


Brexit would be a gratuitous act of self-harm. Business leaders have a duty to speak up

In a multi-speed, multi-tiered EU, the European superstate is a chimera. Brexiters such as Nigel Farage, the leader of the UK Independence party, see British withdrawal as a handy act of sabotage, hastening the disintegration of the EU. To what end? In or out, Britain would pay a heavy cost. Brexit would reintroduce a border between north and south in Ireland. It would put the territorial integrity of the UK at risk, especially if an independent-minded Scotland overwhelmingly votes to stay. It would trigger a political crisis in the UK — Mr Cameron would surely go — and reawaken the ghosts of nationalism in Europe.


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The positive case for Britain in the EU is easily made. To abandon the cause of constructive reform of an admittedly imperfect EU would be more than defeatist. It would be a gratuitous act of self-harm. Business leaders have a duty to spell out the cost of leaving before it is too late.

In 1975, when a Labour government called for a referendum on British membership of the European Economic Community, the FT rejected the notion of Britain as “a tight little island, seeking refuge in a siege economy, opting out of the main stream of world politics”. The sentiment remains resonant today. This is no time to revert to Little England. We are Great Britain. We have a contribution to make to a more prosperous, safer world. The vote must be “Remain”.

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armaghniac

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #235 on: June 16, 2016, 03:19:05 PM »
Well at least Nolan knows what is important, a vote for breakfast, an Ulster Fry no doubt.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/vote-for-breakfast-stephen-nolan-in-a-scramble-over-brexit-slip-34806760.html
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

dec

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #236 on: June 16, 2016, 04:06:20 PM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36550304

An MP is in a critical condition after she was shot and stabbed during an attack in her constituency.

Eyewitnesses said Jo Cox, 41, Labour MP for Batley and Spen, was left bleeding on the floor by her attacker. A man also suffered slight injuries.

A 52-year-old man was arrested near Market Street, Birstall, West Yorkshire Police said. The MP holds a weekly advice surgery nearby.

armaghniac

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #237 on: June 16, 2016, 05:30:13 PM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36550304

An MP is in a critical condition after she was shot and stabbed during an attack in her constituency.

Eyewitnesses said Jo Cox, 41, Labour MP for Batley and Spen, was left bleeding on the floor by her attacker. A man also suffered slight injuries.

A 52-year-old man was arrested near Market Street, Birstall, West Yorkshire Police said. The MP holds a weekly advice surgery nearby.

This lady has died, sadly.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Rossfan

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #238 on: June 16, 2016, 05:46:18 PM »
RIP.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

Farrandeelin

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #239 on: June 16, 2016, 11:00:58 PM »
Shocking news.
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