Author Topic: Brexit.  (Read 623885 times)

balladmaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
  • Irish To The Core!
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7830 on: August 21, 2019, 10:13:32 PM »
When Johnson says that in the event of a no deal Brexit, the UK will not implement any checks on cross border traffic, what does that mean?
Is that workable if the South does not do any checks as well in solidarity?
It's the British government trying to shift the burden of responsibility for the eventual shit hitting the fan regarding NI.

I'd expect the southern government will, with great public reluctance, start placing customs posts on the border in order to comply with EU rules on the Single Market in the event that the UK leaves the EU without any agreement with them. The consequences of the Irish government not doing so would likely be far worse, especially if it was seen to be ungrateful for the support the EU has given them so far. The Irish government never asked to be be put into this position.

This current talk from "not manning the border" by Johnson and fellow Brexit headbangers is little more than a bluff. It would be impossible for it to work without major repercussions elsewhere including immigration, trade tariffs & deals, WTO rules, "native" industry in the UK going tits up etc. And indeed Merkel has called them out on it this evening - telling Johnson & Co. to either come up with a workable solution to replace the agreed "backstop" in the WA within the next 30 days, or STFU. Expect pictures of her photoshopped into a Nazi uniform gracing the English tabloid front pages soon.

In the event of a hard border returning, surely there will be mass rallies and protests at that border.  The general Joe Soap public are not going to stand for a border of any sort, Iím not talking about hardline republicans, but the average person on the street.  Demands for a border poll will be deafening.  What are the DUP playing at, do that not realise where this could be heading!

armaghniac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12868
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7831 on: August 21, 2019, 10:23:12 PM »
When Johnson says that in the event of a no deal Brexit, the UK will not implement any checks on cross border traffic, what does that mean?
Is that workable if the South does not do any checks as well in solidarity?
It's the British government trying to shift the burden of responsibility for the eventual shit hitting the fan regarding NI.

I'd expect the southern government will, with great public reluctance, start placing customs posts on the border in order to comply with EU rules on the Single Market in the event that the UK leaves the EU without any agreement with them. The consequences of the Irish government not doing so would likely be far worse, especially if it was seen to be ungrateful for the support the EU has given them so far. The Irish government never asked to be be put into this position.

This current talk from "not manning the border" by Johnson and fellow Brexit headbangers is little more than a bluff. It would be impossible for it to work without major repercussions elsewhere including immigration, trade tariffs & deals, WTO rules, "native" industry in the UK going tits up etc. And indeed Merkel has called them out on it this evening - telling Johnson & Co. to either come up with a workable solution to replace the agreed "backstop" in the WA within the next 30 days, or STFU. Expect pictures of her photoshopped into a Nazi uniform gracing the English tabloid front pages soon.

In the event of a hard border returning, surely there will be mass rallies and protests at that border.  The general Joe Soap public are not going to stand for a border of any sort, Iím not talking about hardline republicans, but the average person on the street.  Demands for a border poll will be deafening.  What are the DUP playing at, do that not realise where this could be heading!

The British trick of refusing to cooperate, but not actually building border posts makes it hard to know where to protest.

However, after todays meeting with Merkel I still suspect Boris will come back with a NI only backstop, not called a backstop of course but called Northern Ireland special economic zone or some such.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

macdanger2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4253
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7832 on: August 21, 2019, 10:48:14 PM »
When Johnson says that in the event of a no deal Brexit, the UK will not implement any checks on cross border traffic, what does that mean?
Is that workable if the South does not do any checks as well in solidarity?

I'd say the EU would say we need to put checks on the border or at Irish ports - effectively taking us out of the single market along with the UK

Fionntamhnach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2775
  • "If I won the award for laziness, I'd send somebody to pick it up for me."
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7833 on: August 21, 2019, 10:50:59 PM »
This talk of the British government saying "well, we're not going to put up a manned border but yer fellow paddies will" should be called out for what it is - the classic British diplomatic trick of divide & conquer, in this case trying to pitch republicans and nationalists (as well as all others that support the "invisible border" as it stands) in d'north alongside neighbouring communities on the other side of the divide, verses the Irish government.

Also, would anyone here reading this forum regard Johnson and his fellow knackers as being trustworthy? Only the gullible or naive IMHO.

Whatever the state of who or what mans the bordering the event of the UK leaving the EU without an agreement is only part of the story about future events concerning all of Ireland. As tempting as it might be to some, any attacks on customs officers or facilities on the southern side will be counter productive and play right into the (worryingly large) lunatic end of Brexiteers along with the ERG, Aaron Banks, Nigel Fa**ge and many associated with the rise of the so called "alt-right", "alt-lite" and right-wing authoritarianism in many parts of the globe - including the USA & Russia - there, I said it. They see the fragility of the peace process here as an opportunity for them to smash the EU apart for their own goals concerning the world's trade & power axis. They don't give two f*cks about any part of Ireland, they only see an opportunity for their own means, using the border as a proxy for an international power struggle.

Those the are behind the likes of Border Communities Against Brexit need to be wise as to what's going on and how they might be unwitting pawns for all other interested actors. I'd have no doubt in such a scenario there will be civil disobedience, in fact I expect it. But they need to know whom is doing what, and quickly build alliances and understandings with the right people. Otherwise, they'll be played as puppets and won't realise it until it's too late.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 10:52:46 PM by Fionntamhnach »
Fighting against ignorance on the internet since 1999. It's just taking longer than I hoped.

armaghniac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12868
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7834 on: August 21, 2019, 10:53:26 PM »
The focus should not be on attacking Freestate customs posts but on moving them to Larne.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Fionntamhnach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2775
  • "If I won the award for laziness, I'd send somebody to pick it up for me."
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7835 on: August 21, 2019, 10:55:56 PM »
The focus should not be on attacking Freestate customs posts but on moving them to Larne.
I personally concur, and from polling done over the last couple of years, so do the majority of people in NI.
Fighting against ignorance on the internet since 1999. It's just taking longer than I hoped.

Main Street

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11855
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7836 on: August 21, 2019, 11:24:24 PM »
When Johnson says that in the event of a no deal Brexit, the UK will not implement any checks on cross border traffic, what does that mean?
Is that workable if the South does not do any checks as well in solidarity?
It's the British government trying to shift the burden of responsibility for the eventual shit hitting the fan regarding NI.

I'd expect the southern government will, with great public reluctance, start placing customs posts on the border in order to comply with EU rules on the Single Market in the event that the UK leaves the EU without any agreement with them. The consequences of the Irish government not doing so would likely be far worse, especially if it was seen to be ungrateful for the support the EU has given them so far. The Irish government never asked to be be put into this position.

This current talk from "not manning the border" by Johnson and fellow Brexit headbangers is little more than a bluff. It would be impossible for it to work without major repercussions elsewhere including immigration, trade tariffs & deals, WTO rules, "native" industry in the UK going tits up etc. And indeed Merkel has called them out on it this evening - telling Johnson & Co. to either come up with a workable solution to replace the agreed "backstop" in the WA within the next 30 days, or STFU. Expect pictures of her photoshopped into a Nazi uniform gracing the English tabloid front pages soon.
Thanks for the explanation

weareros

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 777
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7837 on: August 21, 2019, 11:40:10 PM »
When Johnson says that in the event of a no deal Brexit, the UK will not implement any checks on cross border traffic, what does that mean?
Is that workable if the South does not do any checks as well in solidarity?

I'd say the EU would say we need to put checks on the border or at Irish ports - effectively taking us out of the single market along with the UK

Hard to see how we could not put customs checks on the borders without the backstop. The classic example is of cheaper beef being imported into NI after a UK trade deal with America/South America that uses hormones to fatten livestock. That is illegal in EU but anything could go now in the UK. So we would need some way of preventing it crossing the border and tainting and eventually destroying our agricultural industry. The thing is - the reason we would have to do this is because of the irresponsibility of the UK and the reality is they don't give a shit. We are fortunate the EU have them  squarely by the balls and won't give a deal without the backstop, because they do need a deal with the EU despite everything they say.



Main Street

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11855
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7838 on: August 21, 2019, 11:48:13 PM »
Ian Holloway,  a football manager in the England leagues said on Sky Sports after the controversial VAR  handball decision which denied Man City a late winner v Spurs, that
"the EU shouldn't be telling us what we do with our game"
Holloway told viewers he was against the (handball) rule before leading onto comments regarding Brexit.

"I hope we get out, Brexit, because that's what we all voted for. And sort that out because you cannot have someone telling us how to do our own game". the outspoken manager urged the FA to act on the matter, while also calling on the government to deliver Brexit.

When even he suspected that sounded like Alf Garnett on a drunken rant, he tried to explain what he meant but sank deeper into bulldog mire.
"Brexit is nothing to do with the football rules, is it? Iím not that stupid, so I suggest people wash their ears out and listen. "As an English person, Iím sick and fed up of being told what weíve got to do. Our country is fantastic. If you let us make our own rules up, do what we want to do, weíll be in control of it a lot better.""

"I donít like UEFA and I donít like FIFA telling us what we should do in our English football game. We should take control of our own game, then that wouldnít have happened.

"Letís get out and stop the EU dictating to us what we can do. I feel exactly the same with Uefa and Fifa over our football."


The bulldog fades to black.

https://tinyurl.com/y5f9zkbn

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15544
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7839 on: August 22, 2019, 12:08:49 AM »
It's all that heading the ball that causes that level of utter stupidity.
Angela M has fairly put it up to Gobshite Johnson.
He wanted "Oomph"..... he's got it ;D
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

seafoid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23999
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7840 on: August 22, 2019, 05:18:39 AM »
When Johnson says that in the event of a no deal Brexit, the UK will not implement any checks on cross border traffic, what does that mean?
Is that workable if the South does not do any checks as well in solidarity?

I'd say the EU would say we need to put checks on the border or at Irish ports - effectively taking us out of the single market along with the UK

Hard to see how we could not put customs checks on the borders without the backstop. The classic example is of cheaper beef being imported into NI after a UK trade deal with America/South America that uses hormones to fatten livestock. That is illegal in EU but anything could go now in the UK. So we would need some way of preventing it crossing the border and tainting and eventually destroying our agricultural industry. The thing is - the reason we would have to do this is because of the irresponsibility of the UK and the reality is they don't give a shit. We are fortunate the EU have them  squarely by the balls and won't give a deal without the backstop, because they do need a deal with the EU despite everything they say.

There are 2 main differences between the EU and US
regarding food.

Animal welfare standards are higher in Europe
Prices are generally higher

If Brexit went ahead and the UK adopted the US model there would
have to be a border unless NÕ had a different system to England
Lookit

t_mac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7841 on: August 22, 2019, 07:51:05 AM »
When Johnson says that in the event of a no deal Brexit, the UK will not implement any checks on cross border traffic, what does that mean?
Is that workable if the South does not do any checks as well in solidarity?

I'd say the EU would say we need to put checks on the border or at Irish ports - effectively taking us out of the single market along with the UK

In a nutshell, checks would need to be done in France and therefore the Brits would have taken Ireland out of the EU by default.

Franko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2063
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7842 on: August 22, 2019, 10:36:18 AM »
This talk of the British government saying "well, we're not going to put up a manned border but yer fellow paddies will" should be called out for what it is - the classic British diplomatic trick of divide & conquer, in this case trying to pitch republicans and nationalists (as well as all others that support the "invisible border" as it stands) in d'north alongside neighbouring communities on the other side of the divide, verses the Irish government.

Also, would anyone here reading this forum regard Johnson and his fellow knackers as being trustworthy? Only the gullible or naive IMHO.

Whatever the state of who or what mans the bordering the event of the UK leaving the EU without an agreement is only part of the story about future events concerning all of Ireland. As tempting as it might be to some, any attacks on customs officers or facilities on the southern side will be counter productive and play right into the (worryingly large) lunatic end of Brexiteers along with the ERG, Aaron Banks, Nigel Fa**ge and many associated with the rise of the so called "alt-right", "alt-lite" and right-wing authoritarianism in many parts of the globe - including the USA & Russia - there, I said it. They see the fragility of the peace process here as an opportunity for them to smash the EU apart for their own goals concerning the world's trade & power axis. They don't give two f*cks about any part of Ireland, they only see an opportunity for their own means, using the border as a proxy for an international power struggle.

Those the are behind the likes of Border Communities Against Brexit need to be wise as to what's going on and how they might be unwitting pawns for all other interested actors. I'd have no doubt in such a scenario there will be civil disobedience, in fact I expect it. But they need to know whom is doing what, and quickly build alliances and understandings with the right people. Otherwise, they'll be played as puppets and won't realise it until it's too late.

Excellent post.

johnnycool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1318
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7843 on: August 22, 2019, 11:44:36 AM »
It's all that heading the ball that causes that level of utter stupidity.
Angela M has fairly put it up to Gobshite Johnson.
He wanted "Oomph"..... he's got it ;D

Interesting to hear both of them. Merkel must have mentioned the Good Friday Agreement on several occasions, but Boris didn't once that I can recollect.

He's got 30 days to come up with a backstop alternative so to use his own term, that's a blistering pace, so get to it ballbag!

joemamas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1583
    • View Profile
Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7844 on: August 22, 2019, 01:07:59 PM »
This talk of the British government saying "well, we're not going to put up a manned border but yer fellow paddies will" should be called out for what it is - the classic British diplomatic trick of divide & conquer, in this case trying to pitch republicans and nationalists (as well as all others that support the "invisible border" as it stands) in d'north alongside neighbouring communities on the other side of the divide, verses the Irish government.

Also, would anyone here reading this forum regard Johnson and his fellow knackers as being trustworthy? Only the gullible or naive IMHO.

Whatever the state of who or what mans the bordering the event of the UK leaving the EU without an agreement is only part of the story about future events concerning all of Ireland. As tempting as it might be to some, any attacks on customs officers or facilities on the southern side will be counter productive and play right into the (worryingly large) lunatic end of Brexiteers along with the ERG, Aaron Banks, Nigel Fa**ge and many associated with the rise of the so called "alt-right", "alt-lite" and right-wing authoritarianism in many parts of the globe - including the USA & Russia - there, I said it. They see the fragility of the peace process here as an opportunity for them to smash the EU apart for their own goals concerning the world's trade & power axis. They don't give two f*cks about any part of Ireland, they only see an opportunity for their own means, using the border as a proxy for an international power struggle.

Those the are behind the likes of Border Communities Against Brexit need to be wise as to what's going on and how they might be unwitting pawns for all other interested actors. I'd have no doubt in such a scenario there will be civil disobedience, in fact I expect it. But they need to know whom is doing what, and quickly build alliances and understandings with the right people. Otherwise, they'll be played as puppets and won't realise it until it's too late.

Excellent post.

+1

There have been some excellent and thought provoking posts on this topic over the past few days.