Brexit.

Started by T Fearon, November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

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Dougal Maguire

People need to wake up and smell the coffee. A SF decision to take seats at Westminster would split them apart and create a new and much stronger dissent organisation. It's amazing that the leadership has managed to keep them all together given all they've been through in recent years. A decision to end the abstentionist policy would be a step too far for many
Careful now

JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2019, 02:32:33 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 13, 2019, 01:01:34 AM
Sf's 7 mps would have zero influence in the commons. The SNP have 35 and did have over 50 and what exactly has that done for them?

With a few Tory abstentions 7 would be the clincher
None of the Shinner objections make sense. They don't have to swear loyalty to the Queen. SD'P didn't.
They could build political relationships with sympathetic Scottish, Welsh and Labour politicians.
They are stuck in a trap they built for themselves.
SDLP have sworn the oath. I remember seeing Margaret Ritchie doing it. At least Tony Benn crossed his fingers behind his back when doing it lol

Hardy

An empty formula.

Lar Naparka

Quote from: RedHand88 on January 13, 2019, 09:29:37 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 12, 2019, 11:58:24 PM
Maybe I am missing something but blaming the DUP for a hard  Brexit, as seems likely, is pointless. From day one, it was obvious the way that Nigel and his fellow neanthardals were going to vote. There is nothing to be gained by trying to talk sense to them.
However, there is another intransigent bunch of dittos that could do well to practice what they preach and give Theresa the chance to tell the billyboys to go supposit themselves.
I am talking about the Shinners.
As things stand they have a total of 7 MPs and going by present tallies they could have tipped the balance in the Prime Minister's favour at the last ballot. It's time to forget about 1918 and all that. Matters of principle are all very well and drawing their salaries and all other allowances without earning a single penny is a neat trick if you can get away with it but I'd  think more of 2019 than 1918 right now.if there is a hard Brexit, the Shinners will be equally to blame as Arlene's lot.
Abstention me arse, it's time to get real!

They don't draw any salary from Westminster.

Also, why oh why would they go against abstentionism when they received their biggest ever mandate since partition on the basis that they don't enter the commons?? Its political suicide.
The fact is that northern nationalism has no interest in being represented in the house of commons. The sdlp got wiped out at the last election in favour of abstentionists, with the exception of South belfast.
SF represent nationalism exactly where it matters in this stand off, the Dáil and Brussels.
What you say are all valid points and I do accept that for many nationalists the thought of having anything to do with Westminster in any shape or form is anathema to them.
Fair enough but what's the alternative? If Sinn Fein maintains its principled abstentionism, Theresa May will lose the vote and Britain will crash out of the EU and that in all probability means disaster for all who live in Northern Ireland.
There's still a bit of room for compromise of some sort and the expected rejection of the last and last that the EU has to offer seems the only logical outcome at this stage.
So what does that mean for Northern Ireland and for the Republic also? Odds on there will be a return to customs posts and long delay on both sides of the border at every approved crossing. The Good Friday Agreement will go down the drain and we could be back to the sectarian strife once again.
I don't think that will advance the prospects of a united Ireland, to put it mildly.  As things stand and the GFA holds, there will be an end to partition if and when a simple majority of voters, at a future referendum, vote for change.
Sure, I accept that Sinn Fein performed very well at the last general election and if the party was to ditch its core belief, it would definitely get hammered in the polls at the next election – that is if nothing were to change in the interim. But we now have a different ball game in a manner of speaking and preserving the GFA at all costs has to be every sane person's priority.
Otherwise, we are back to the bad ol' days of Taigs and Prods and we can forget about a united Ireland for decades to come.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

trailer

Sinn Fein. The only custodians of Irish Republicanism.
No oath to a foreign Queen.
Brits out.
Terrorise your own community.
That's how freedom will be achieved.

BennyCake

Border posts, leading to trouble around the border. Would that not hurry up a border poll? Would Britain not think, f**k this, were not "dealing" with this shit again. Bump, border poll, United ireland?

red hander

Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2019, 02:32:33 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 13, 2019, 01:01:34 AM
Sf's 7 mps would have zero influence in the commons. The SNP have 35 and did have over 50 and what exactly has that done for them?

With a few Tory abstentions 7 would be the clincher
None of the Shinner objections make sense. They don't have to swear loyalty to the Queen. SD'P didn't.
They could build political relationships with sympathetic Scottish, Welsh and Labour politicians.
They are stuck in a trap they built for themselves.

They do, Seafoid. And the SDLP MPs did. Northern nationalism has made it clear it is not the slightest bit interested in being represented in the British parliament, end of.

trailer

Quote from: red hander on January 13, 2019, 04:43:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2019, 02:32:33 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 13, 2019, 01:01:34 AM
Sf's 7 mps would have zero influence in the commons. The SNP have 35 and did have over 50 and what exactly has that done for them?

With a few Tory abstentions 7 would be the clincher
None of the Shinner objections make sense. They don't have to swear loyalty to the Queen. SD'P didn't.
They could build political relationships with sympathetic Scottish, Welsh and Labour politicians.
They are stuck in a trap they built for themselves.

They do, Seafoid. And the SDLP MPs did. Northern nationalism has made it clear it is not the slightest bit interested in being represented in the British parliament, end of.

Here's the facts Seafoid or you can listen to red hander who spouts the SF line verbatim.

https://mobile.twitter.com/markdurkan/status/1067124640164864001?lang=en



JPGJOHNNYG

Your reference is a twitter feed of Durkan being ridiculed for claiming its not an oath but an affirmation. Here is Ritchie as I mentioned earlier

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pndH-BP0B-g

And before i get accused of being a shinner. I vote for SDLP in SB. For the record Durkan was one of the best MP's and has been replaced by a complete tool

red hander

Quote from: trailer on January 13, 2019, 05:29:56 PM
Quote from: red hander on January 13, 2019, 04:43:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2019, 02:32:33 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 13, 2019, 01:01:34 AM
Sf's 7 mps would have zero influence in the commons. The SNP have 35 and did have over 50 and what exactly has that done for them?

With a few Tory abstentions 7 would be the clincher
None of the Shinner objections make sense. They don't have to swear loyalty to the Queen. SD'P didn't.
They could build political relationships with sympathetic Scottish, Welsh and Labour politicians.
They are stuck in a trap they built for themselves.

They do, Seafoid. And the SDLP MPs did. Northern nationalism has made it clear it is not the slightest bit interested in being represented in the British parliament, end of.

Here's the facts Seafoid or you can listen to red hander who spouts the SF line verbatim.

https://mobile.twitter.com/markdurkan/status/1067124640164864001?lang=en

;D Jog on, ye clown. I haven't voted Sinn Fein in over 20 years. What I spout is a republican line, not all republicans are Sinn Fein voters

Lar Naparka

Quote from: BennyCake on January 13, 2019, 04:34:55 PM
Border posts, leading to trouble around the border. Would that not hurry up a border poll? Would Britain not think, f**k this, were not "dealing" with this shit again. Bump, border poll, United ireland?
Somehow, I doubt it very much.  ;D ;D
I think it's fair to say that most people in the Republic are 'soft' republicans. In other words, they are favourable to the general concept of a united country but don't bother thinking too much about the specifics involved.I am being very serious when I say that the first thing the average citizen down here will be concerned about is the cost of paying for unification- I'm certain the Brits would like to see the whole goddamn lot of you off their hands for good.
The figure of 6 billion has been bandied about in the media as being there or thereabouts and, given our health and homelessness issues right now, we have enough problems without getting saddled with any more.
I'd like to see a UI in my lifetime but if the Brits turn down the EU's latest offer, I think I will be long gone before even the possibility of unification is even thought of again.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

red hander

Reparations from the Brits for 800 years of oppression will help pay for it  ;)

Seriously though,Westminster will have to help fund the transition, as will the EU. It'll not cost the people as much as the fifth columnists in the southern media would have you believe

Wildweasel74

So don't take an oath but OK to take the queen's pound, greedy, hardly a conviction of their believes there.

Rossfan

Quote from: red hander on January 13, 2019, 08:23:02 PM
Reparations from the Brits for 800 years of oppression will help pay for it  ;)

Seriously though,Westminster will have to help fund the transition, as will the EU. It'll not cost the people as much as the fifth columnists in the southern media would have you believe
How about paying ye're own fkn way for once ye shower of spongers?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

playwiththewind1st

Suppose yez never got a single euro from the EU? Who else pays for everything down there?