The future of laois hurling

[merman]

I sometimes think we look at Laois' current struggles without considering the many different issues that all need to be addressed....and before anyone mentions it, yes, I'm as guilty of this as anyone.

It's like a massive 3-D shape and many of us are coming at it from different angles; we focus and become consumed by what we can see right in front of us.

At the moment, the County Board is everyone's favourite punching bag...and with some justification. I would consider the current board generally competent but fresh ideas, voices and energy would be welcome. Yes, its somewhat frustrating to see the same names and faces but these people are nominated and elected by the clubs.

I maintain, however, that a singular focus on the county board is too simplistic. Some call it apathy but I don't agree; I think a lot of the best work being done around the county is within the clubs and that's, in my opinion at least, more important than anything the county board are or aren't doing.
Club coach education has started to come on; from an admittedly poor base. There are still issues within club structures and I'm inclined to agree with Keyser that more amalgamations will need to be considered.
More and more clubs are developing Nursery programmes and will hopefully see numbers increase in years to come.
If these players can be retained and receive a generally improved standard of coaching, we might then see some improvements at Development Panel level.

Primary schools also need to be part of the solution. Participation in Gaelic Games should be encouraged across the whole school year and the Club-School Link needs to be solidified and enhanced. All schools should be receiving support weekly with an emphasis on the classes below Cumann na mBunscol level. The fundamental responsibility here lies with the clubs but the county board may need to find ways to provide coaching too.

At Development Panel level, I agree with positive comments made about Jason Coffey. I think giving him a bit of time will see our overall standards develop and we might start to close that with the many counties ahead of us.
Development Panels are only as good as the players involved and the current call for coaches/mentors is welcome but I still think we have a long road ahead before we see any tangible improvements.

Ultimately, that's very simple but its about incremental improvements. Limerick's success hasn't been driven by changing adult structures; it is borne out of massive increases in participation levels, especially in the city.
They have more players coming through having received better coaching. It almost sounds too simple but that's what I feel it boils down to.
This can and should be driven by the county board but individual clubs also need to take responsibility with looking after themselves first and foremost. Looking for cheap and easy solutions has gotten us where we are. Clubs need to get into schools, get kids out to the clubs and get them the best coaching available. That's what the likes of The Harps and Rosenallis are doing and their success at underage level is becoming evident.

And that's where the Portlaoise question needs to be looked at. I don't think he was labelled as such but before his career-break, Peter Halley had assumed the role of Portlaoise GDA including the surrounding clubs. He was working alongside Pat Critchely and he will hopefully get back to that role if/when he returns. One of the reports from convention certainly seemed to suggest he would be returning at some point.
We need more players coming from our largest urban centres. The hurling areas are contracting and rural communities are seeing populations decline. We need to expand our playing base and Portlaoise is crucial.
I know talks took place about the school in Knockmay becoming a feeder school to Clonad and that would be a help but unless they actually commit to developing a pitch on-site and training there, I don't see it being enough.

I'd say there's the possibility of doubling participation levels in Portlaoise going by ClonadMad's numbrs. There are 4 big primary schools that between them must have in excess of 1000 boys between the ages of 4 and 12.
Double those numbers, spread them around the clubs if possible and then let other clubs work to maximise their potential. There's no reason we shouldn't be having 200-300 boys looking to progress onto a Laois U14 panel in a few years. That's when we can start to see progress.

[clonadmad]

Id agree with everything that Merman has posted and i hope that Peter comes back to the Gda role for Portlaoise Parish and all the other 4 Gda roles are filled asap.

In relation to Boys in School in Portlaoise Parish across the 8 schools (I'm counting holy family senior and junior schools as separate entities)

They are currently 1784 boys in Primary Education.

In Relation to u14 Hurlers

We currently have 18 teams playing u13 hurling in the 2019 championship,assuming an average of 18 players per squad

We are looking at 320 odd hurlers wouldn't it be great for the county if we could get that up by another 100 at that age grade over a 3 to 5 year time frame

[Pugwash]

Can someone tell me why clubs in Laois are prepared to shell out €10,000 - €15,000 a year for a manager but wouldn't have the foresight to instead pump funds into hiring a Development Officer (even on a part time basis) or even compensate a few coaches within their club to go into the local school/schools in their catchment area?

Setting aside €2000/€3000 (hypothetical figures) per year to pay for every underage coach within the club to partake in coaching courses, have a coach education weekend where a big name coach comes down and all your coaches attend and hopefully pick up new techniques, drills etc.

Soccer clubs even at local level seem to be light years ahead of GAA clubs, despite having far less money and it's baffling.

[Ogie]

This is something I've been looking into, the possibility of hiring a GDA between 3 or 4 hurling clubs in the area,
Blarney & Bishopstown have done it in Cork, albeit much bigger clubs & population I think it would be very feasible & workable for clubs to do it, there would be support there from the Gaa also.

Our GDAs are over stretched at present, is there only two at present ? Connor & Jason? Their only planting seeds & dependent then on club coaches to carry it on, this usually falls to one or two forward thinking coaches in clubs try carry it on & drag daddy's along with them.

The open call for mentors is great, but we don't need Dads going in to look after their own, I know that's not what Henchy wants.
As merman references the 3D example & has often been mentioned here, That's what Cheddars plan encapsulated, the entire plan, players, coaches, financial, schools, media, education everything!
I live in hope it will see daylight.

[clonadmad]

The GAA will fund a GDA to the tune of €18k PA..

It's being done elsewhere where 2 clubs in separate divisional areas  within a county hire in a GDA.

Nevermind Dublin clubs

Nothing to stop 2 clubs here both selling 100 odd county board tickets each and doing similar.

[clonadmad]

Can someone tell me why clubs in Laois are prepared to shell out €10,000 - €15,000 a year for a manager but wouldn't have the foresight to instead pump funds into hiring a Development Officer (even on a part time basis) or even compensate a few coaches within their club to go into the local school/schools in their catchment area?

Setting aside €2000/€3000 (hypothetical figures) per year to pay for every underage coach within the club to partake in coaching courses, have a coach education weekend where a big name coach comes down and all your coaches attend and hopefully pick up new techniques, drills etc.

Soccer clubs even at local level seem to be light years ahead of GAA clubs, despite having far less money and it's baffling.

There's a school club coaching grant available

[finbar o tool]

Just a comment on High Fielders view of, why bother doing anything to help until the County board or whoever get some plans in place... I'm simply talking about more people getting out there, getting involved, getting their own coach education, there's plenty of courses, the ones in Laois usually have to be pulled due to lack of numbers ffs!
If more people do this, we will end up with better coaches, better coaches means better players, and in turn we will have more/better players AND coaches available at development squad level. There's literally nothing stopping you from doing this, try and create a culture within your own club, get involved at the top table in your club and implement structures in the club.
I really don't understand this idea of throwing our hands up and wait for a gaa Bible to appear with all the answers.
Yes 100% the County board need to get better and progressive, but there's lots we can do to improve things while we wait for something or someone to pull it all together.
Something like Ogie mentioned there, clubs sharing the GDA and sharing the cost, great idea, and it's not coming from the county board, it's club driven!
I also think a second club needs to be set up in portlaoise, as was recommended in that waste of time strategic plan. Otherwise its inevitable portlaoise will be become a superpower eventually.
But all of the above have one thing in common, passionate people getting off their holes and getting involved!!

[High Fielder]

And we don't do that already? What an absolute joke. Asking lay volunteers to up the ante and attend a few courses and all of a sudden you're an expert. No kid deserves to be coached by some wannabe who fancies themselves as the next Jim McGuinness or Davy Fitz. Half of these courses time are taken up telling you how not to be a paedo. No thanks. All of that is great when it's backed up by proper coaching structures monitoring each kid and local mentor. Unfortunately, there's far too many of our kids being "coached" by classroom experts.

So many good ex players studied on that course in Carlow under Mick Dempsey. They are the ones who need to be targeted. And yes, it would cost money, and yes, we would have to fundraise. But it sure as hell beats the crap out of know nothings taking a few classes and suddenly knowing it all. Let's be a little bit professional in our approach, please.

[finbar o tool]

And we don't do that already? What an absolute joke. Asking lay volunteers to up the ante and attend a few courses and all of a sudden you're an expert. No kid deserves to be coached by some wannabe who fancies themselves as the next Jim McGuinness or Davy Fitz. Half of these courses time are taken up telling you how not to be a paedo. No thanks. All of that is great when it's backed up by proper coaching structures monitoring each kid and local mentor. Unfortunately, there's far too many of our kids being "coached" by classroom experts.

So many good ex players studied on that course in Carlow under Mick Dempsey. They are the ones who need to be targeted. And yes, it would cost money, and yes, we would have to fundraise. But it sure as hell beats the crap out of know nothings taking a few classes and suddenly knowing it all. Let's be a little bit professional in our approach, please.

Bullshit response high fielder, that "how not to be a paedo" course is the code of ethics course, which is mandatory, you obviously haven't done too many coaching courses yourself!
Where do you think Jim McGuinness and Davy started?! Or are they just born with coaching ability!? How do you think anybody becomes an expert in their chosen field? Just comes to them in a dream!?
And no, clearly we don't do that already! Cause we have f**k all coaches and our standard of hurling generally is poor!!
Also, incase you forgot, this is an amateur, volunteer organisation!!

[High Fielder]

Go sell your amateur horse shit to any county doing anything of note. Maybe we shout say a few novenas while we're at it. Give me a break. You're right about one thing. Not a chance in hell I'll be doing any of those courses. I'm happy enough with my contribution to my club and Laois. I'll leave the coaching to the coaches.

We should do the decent thing and round up those lads who studied under Dempsey. Raise an extra few quid a year and give a few lads some paid work.

My tone was a bit harsh on reflection there Finbarr. Apologies. I just fell the GAA world has moved on. Volunteering on its own isn't enough any more. Just my opinion. Apologies again for the tone. I can see your intentions are honourable

[Keyser Söze]

Some good suggestions re funding a GDA.
Mountrath, Camross & Castletown parishes for example should be able to fund a full time GDA if they wanted. I think there's 5 clubs there. Am I correct in saying that they would need to fund half of the GDA's wage between them?
I think there are 8 schools in that area. Certainly enough work for a GDA, maybe too much actually when club duties are also added in.

On the point I brought up re a second club in Portlaoise. if there was a serious investment and intent to improve participation in the town, it would be too late waiting for it to be successful to look to start a new club.
Good luck telling parents and kids in 10 years that they have to leave this super successful club with a tradition and join a new one.
Or that they can't play for the same successful club as older brothers or cousins or neighbours.
I think this would meet serious resistance.

[High Fielder]

Agreed Keyser. This is the way to go. Investment first and foremost. What parent wouldn't pay a few quid to have their kid trained properly? We can't duck the extra funding issue forever. We need it. Simple as.

As for Portlaoise, there are enough grades for them to enter all the teams they need. Splitting Portlaoise is a non starter imo, and non negotiable for any serious Portlaoise GAA person. There are probably a lot of kids in Portlaoise who would never see a GAA pitch anyway, no matter what is done to encourage them. The trick here is to keep the ones that start, and get the attrition rate lower

[clonadmad]

And we don't do that already? What an absolute joke. Asking lay volunteers to up the ante and attend a few courses and all of a sudden you're an expert. No kid deserves to be coached by some wannabe who fancies themselves as the next Jim McGuinness or Davy Fitz. Half of these courses time are taken up telling you how not to be a paedo. No thanks. All of that is great when it's backed up by proper coaching structures monitoring each kid and local mentor. Unfortunately, there's far too many of our kids being "coached" by classroom experts.

So many good ex players studied on that course in Carlow under Mick Dempsey. They are the ones who need to be targeted. And yes, it would cost money, and yes, we would have to fundraise. But it sure as hell beats the crap out of know nothings taking a few classes and suddenly knowing it all. Let's be a little bit professional in our approach, please.

Easily known you've never been on one then.

Every club should be aiming to have all the coach's with at least a foundation course under their belts and trying to get as many up to level 1 and possibly even level 2.

There's no shortage of other courses and resources out there also

I presume you are on Martin Fogartys mailing list for the 4 sessions hes running in Jan/Feb

Habits both good and bad are picked up by kids early on and people knowing what they are doing helps

Some of the best coaches ive seen have had little or no skills as hurlers but have a love of the game,are willing to educate themselves and are good with kids,some of the worst Ive seen have had stellar playing careers.

I've seen a few excellent coaches at club level in the county at juvenile level, we just don't have enough of them at the minute.

As regards your comment about getting in coachs and paying them,We cant even fill the 4 GDA's positions at the minute,lets get that sorted first.

[High Fielder]

You weren't so smart when Batman served it up to you, so practice what you preach and don't even try to get snide with me. I'm not a coach. I don't want to be a coach. We have plenty of good people out there, but we'll have to pay them. I have no problem putting my hand in my pocket to help provide for that.

When I read some of the posts on here, I realise why we're so far behind, and getting further detached. It's 2020 lads. Despite what we're routinely told, the GAA is at the very least semi professional in some areas. Volunteering plays a part for sure, and it has its place. But not at the head of the queue.

[clonadmad]

You weren't so smart when Batman served it up to you, so practice what you preach and don't even try to get snide with me. I'm not a coach. I don't want to be a coach. We have plenty of good people out there, but we'll have to pay them. I have no problem putting my hand in my pocket to help provide for that.

When I read some of the posts on here, I realise why we're so far behind, and getting further detached. It's 2020 lads. Despite what we're routinely told, the GAA is at the very least semi professional in some areas. Volunteering plays a part for sure, and it has its place. But not at the head of the queue.

Stay running off your gob here son and telling the rest of us where we are going wrong rather than getting up off your lazy hole and doing something about it.

At the least the rest  of us here are involved in trying to move the boulder..

Fair enough you won't coach

There's loads of other jobs in every club begging for volunteers,no doubt you'll be first to volunteer.