The future of laois hurling

[on the hop]

It's unfair at these times to place the blame on management or players. They tried to work to a system that unfortunately needed huge time to develop and unfortunately with covid the time to develop this was hindered. My one negative value would lie with our county board. To put the development of players with quality into the hands of (leaving d McGrath out of this) coaches Dunne and Quinlan. Sorry no track record, never worked underneath someone of stature or quality to learn from. A morale victory in a shield competition 2yrs ago doesn't make them the best people to oversee these players. No strength and conditioning coach in place, nó long term development plan in place. Where is the future for these players now. The county board need to analyse there future selections better and at least make sure those in place have knowledge and a good track record

They had two listed in the programme today?

[Spiritof1915]

This man makes perfect sense. The laois management pulled a stroke to get the job by bringing in derek mc grath as an advisor. With Derek mcgrath it takes a couple of years (covid or no covid) to get up to speed with his system and to ask u17s to play that way is not right eitheir.
County board are not serious about laois hurling on

quote author=mountrath1 link=topic=26390.msg1999077#msg1999077 date=1602955246]
It's unfair at these times to place the blame on management or players. They tried to work to a system that unfortunately needed huge time to develop and unfortunately with covid the time to develop this was hindered. My one negative value would lie with our county board. To put the development of players with quality into the hands of (leaving d McGrath out of this) coaches Dunne and Quinlan. Sorry no track record, never worked underneath someone of stature or quality to learn from. A morale victory in a shield competition 2yrs ago doesn't make them the best people to oversee these players. No strength and conditioning coach in place, nó long term development plan in place. Where is the future for these players now. The county board need to analyse there future selections better and at least make sure those in place have knowledge and a good track record
[/quote]

[mountrath1]

Who were they??. Keyser Iv enough on my plate at the moment lol. But been completely honest as I said in end of message, the county board need to look at themselves when hiring people to looking after the next line of hurlers tgat our county teams will be looking to in the not to decent future. Willy nilly half hearted s/c programme isn't the way forward. All we hear is the laois lads are to small, no size. Put in place a programme directed at increasing the players capability to deal with the demands of today's game is what's needed along with good coaching. There is some very good players in that squad so hopefully our county board now will look at all avenues for progression.

[on the hop]

The programme listed Tim Fahey and Connie Conroy as the s and c coaches.

[mountrath1]

Connie left that setup months ago. Tim isn't a qualified SC but his heart is in the right place regards fitness and preparation. Conor Sammon the new GDO will have a good knowledge of sports science and SC so I could see him overlook the development of the underage squads. It really is a crucial area of development that needs huge attention from 14yr and upwards in our young development squads. Coaches with up to date coaching knowledge and applications are a must sought-after person. The county board need to role out these seminars a d have all our coaches up to spec/date with new knowledge of the game as its ever evolving from a tactical to technical aspect. We need to nurture the talent we have at our disposal and really sow the seeds of development ASAP

[clonadmad]

When this group played Offaly at u14

What did they beat them by?

I heard 52 points of a beating

Is this true

Can anyone confirm?

[Spiritof1915]

Correct and right.
quote author=clonadmad link=topic=26390.msg1999281#msg1999281 date=1602976166]
When this group played Offaly at u14

What did they beat them by?

I heard 52 points of a beating

Is this true

Can anyone confirm?
[/quote]

[clonadmad]

Correct and right.
quote author=clonadmad link=topic=26390.msg1999281#msg1999281 date=1602976166]
When this group played Offaly at u14

What did they beat them by?

I heard 52 points of a beating

Is this true

Can anyone confirm?

[/quote]

So a 64 point turnaround in the space of 3 years!!!!!

Any serious hurling county

Management would be lynched and there would be a full scale inquiry as to how this was allowed happen with learnings applied for the future

But this is Laois where indifference reigns

[Giovanni]

Offaly must have had good strength and conditioning in the meantime

[Keyser Söze]

Probably unhelpful at this stage. CB were never going to turn down what was put before them, particularly when it was not going to cost them anything more than other years. Had they done so, and the same result played out yesterday, it would probably be all over social media that they had turned down D McGrath and look what happened.
There's an element of insider trading to the above too. You could question the objectivity and actions of an individual in a prominent CB position.

Eitherways, it's unlikely this management would have wished to stay on no matter how the year went, and probably impossible to do so now. It's akin to a club set up where a group of parents follow a strong team up the line and then step aside.

On the other side of the coin, there is still potential in the players that we knew had it before yesterday. One swallow doesn't make a summer, one bad or good performance doesn't define a young hurler.
As Mountrath says, how we handle them over the next 3 years is vital, but a lot of this will come down to their clubs. Accessing them centrally in this void between 17 & U20 is extremely difficult.
With the facilities that exist at the COE & the ability of Laois GAA to centralise S&C conditioning something can be done.
Would the players & clubs buy into committing to regular blocks of work together at specified times over the next two years? With individual programmes (taking account of loading from other commitments) in between these blocks.  So that whoever is Laois U20 manager in 2023 has access to a pool of suitably strong, athletic and mobile players in December 2022. A group fit to train and spending time on developing a system of play, rather than a group training to get fit.
Is this even possible? The same players will be pulled between club, school, college & county u20 during that time as it stands.

[finbar o tool]

There is a fully functioning S&C/Athletic development program in place for all development squads now, up and running for the last 2 years, granted we are at least 10 years behind a lot of other counties in this regard but it is now up and running. And we also now have a fantastic gym in CoE to facilitate this. I know the U20s and the minors last year did plenty of gym work with a qualified S&C coach. Can't comment on this year's minors but it seems that wasn't the case.
Also lest we forget there was major disruption to preperations this year, but, you can say the same for offaly I guess! But what I've heard is that players and parents were very happy with the set up and the support players received during the summer lockdown.
I have no doubt this was led by McGrath, but I was surprised at how poor the decision making and skill execution was yesterday considering McGrath was involved for a fair bit of the year. Also surprised at the tactics and don't know who to place blame on for that. They played into Offalys hands.
Also it would have been very easy motivate Offaly yesterday. Think the goalie or someone else should have taken the penalty, if that had of gone in we could have turned it around and it may have ended differently. Instead Offaly were buoyed by the save and kicked on from there. We also missed 2 good goal chances in the first half. Small margins and fine lines.

[Keyser Söze]

I understand that there are good S&C programmes available for all squads...but what happens to the guys betweet U17 & U20 was my point. It is when they are not officially part of Inter County squads is the problem (or opportunity).
Granted a small number will progress almost immediately to U20 and will be looked after there.
BUT
In 3 years time, they will need the bulk of yesterdays squad (the guys who won't play U20 in 2021 or 2022) to be equally up to scratch S&C wise in order to stand any chance of competing.
It's what happens these guys that will determine the ability of an U20 panel to compete in 2023 (or any year).
They won't disappear in October 2020 and magically reappear as Inter County level athletes in December 2022.

[finbar o tool]

By that stage the hope is they are properly trained in the gym and will be able to continue their development on there own! Once you leave minor you are an adult, they need to be able to look after themselves at that point!
Also, Mike Henchy and the GDAs are running courses for coaches and encouraging clubs to run their own athletic development programmes in clubs, with the help of the GDAs, how many clubs promote this or get their coaches to attend? A few but not enough!

[Keyser Söze]

I understand that some of this will (and has to) happen at club level and all improvements there are welcome. Certainly the bulk of the actual training can be done individually or collectively at club grounds where appropriate facilities exist.
However all other sports and indeed at least most other GAA counties also operate high performance units, to which the elite level athletes are connected and from where they receive direction.
There is also a lot to be said for the culture of excellence and higher standards that can be achieved when you group high performers together. There is an element of accountability , probably controlled by testing and measurement at regular enough intervals.
Also, science and standard changes. This is fed down through the levels so that what's cutting edge now at club level May already be somewhat outdated at InterCounty level. It is vital that that Laois GAA have the absolute best personnel directly employed and working with InterCounty panels year round. While also spreading the gospel to clubs & club coaches. I don't mean somebody who is also responsible for skills coaching, summer camps, admin of development squads etc.
Is Mike Henchy an S&C professional or is he also doing the above? I think maybe Coffey is? Genuine questions.

I don't think operating at club level alone for the next two years will enable the bulk of yesterday's  panel to compete at InterCounty U20 level in 2023 (or any group in any year).

[finbar o tool]

High performance units?? Please expand?
I think what you are getting at is the issue of moving from u17 to u20 intercounty, there will be a few that will go straight from minor to u20, and those lads will have the connection and proper guidance you mention. But it's the same as the original minor (u18) going from there to the old grade of u21.
The difference now is there is the athletic development program in place, so players joining an u13 or u14 squad next year will be properly developed and educated in the gym. So when they leave the u17 grade they are well capable, and hopefully in the habit of, continuing their own physical development.
After that it's up to the clubs to do their part in setting up athletic development, with the help of the GDAs, Henchy is the games development manager, and a good one too. Coffey is S&C qualified.
As for getting the best people in as coaches, for sure that's the way to go, but the coach development is the key to that as good men are hard to find! And then get them to commit! Clubs need to push the coach education for their coaches too.