Author Topic: The future of laois hurling  (Read 158852 times)

Spiritof1915

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1005 on: October 24, 2019, 07:55:51 AM »
Great to see Portlaoise competing. Hopefully these young men will continue to hurl and not be drawn solely towards football as they reach adult grades. Their u15 team is one of the biggest teams I think I've ever seen at that grade.

Great numbers at laois minor trials last evening in Borris.
Thankfully the management team have opened up the panel or so I hope.

portlaoisekid

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1006 on: October 24, 2019, 08:12:27 AM »
For the town its great to see and as the lad alluded to a strong Portlaoise can only help the county.

Hurling is on the up around the county and the positive vibes are everywhere.


On a senior hurling point its very disapointing to see Cha and Conroy gone for 2020, fair play to them and good luck in their endeavours but from a selfish point of view Laois would love to have them on board.


clonadmad

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1007 on: October 24, 2019, 08:37:38 AM »
Minor 2020 championship should be a cracker as long as there are none of the recent marriage of convenience style amalgamations. B/K, R/E, Portlaoise, C/B, Harps and Abbeyleix would all fancy their chances. Rosenallis and Camross won't be far behind.

Portlaoise,The Harps,Abbeyleix and Camross would be my 4  to make a semifinal in 2020

Rosenallis are my dark horse

B/K,R/E and C/B I donít think will be in the mix as they werenít strong this year and their u15ís did little this year also.

I completely agree with you,as regards those one year amalgamations,they shouldnít be allowed full stop.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 08:40:06 AM by clonadmad »

clonadmad

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1008 on: October 24, 2019, 08:38:56 AM »
Great to see Portlaoise competing. Hopefully these young men will continue to hurl and not be drawn solely towards football as they reach adult grades. Their u15 team is one of the biggest teams I think I've ever seen at that grade.

Great numbers at laois minor trials last evening in Borris.
Thankfully the management team have opened up the panel or so I hope.

A pity they ran it at the same time as Portlaoise and Castletown were playing in a minor final.

Jd

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1009 on: October 24, 2019, 10:05:51 AM »
With regards to the amalgamation idea I can see why people object to them but looking from the outside in is it not better that two rural clubs who may not have enough for a particular year actually field an amalgamation rather than each have 10 air 12 young fellas not playing at all. Ballacolla did it with Mountrath and won the minor a few years ago but I know from people out there that they really had only 10 players fit for minor. They joined up and now both have them players coming onto their adult teams. Some years you have a crop and others you have only 5 or 6. I was in at the minor football and St Pauls who are one of the strongest underage teams had two u14 and three u15s on their team. They are on the go for a good few years(I remember playing them a hundred years ago) yet seem to be down on numbers this year. I think that if amalgamations even short term ones get lads out hurling then they can only be good

Spiritof1915

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1010 on: October 24, 2019, 10:22:51 AM »
With regards to the amalgamation idea I can see why people object to them but looking from the outside in is it not better that two rural clubs who may not have enough for a particular year actually field an amalgamation rather than each have 10 air 12 young fellas not playing at all. Ballacolla did it with Mountrath and won the minor a few years ago but I know from people out there that they really had only 10 players fit for minor. They joined up and now both have them players coming onto their adult teams. Some years you have a crop and others you have only 5 or 6. I was in at the minor football and St Pauls who are one of the strongest underage teams had two u14 and three u15s on their team. They are on the go for a good few years(I remember playing them a hundred years ago) yet seem to be down on numbers this year. I think that if amalgamations even short term ones get lads out hurling then they can only be good

I have to say I disagree. Is it not better to go on your own and develop your own players. I said here before ballyhale are currently playing at c in a couple of age grades albeit kilkenny cb have the foresight to facilitate 13 and 11 a side competitions for teams with low numbers in any given year.
St Paul's are a full blown almagation at underage level and it works for them.
The problem arises when clubs with sufficient numbers and don't put in the work underage developimg players decide to hop around to win a minor.
How is that beneficial for club or county. Is it not better to look at the bug picture than win an underage title

clonadmad

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1011 on: October 24, 2019, 10:24:21 AM »
With regards to the amalgamation idea I can see why people object to them but looking from the outside in is it not better that two rural clubs who may not have enough for a particular year actually field an amalgamation rather than each have 10 air 12 young fellas not playing at all. Ballacolla did it with Mountrath and won the minor a few years ago but I know from people out there that they really had only 10 players fit for minor. They joined up and now both have them players coming onto their adult teams. Some years you have a crop and others you have only 5 or 6. I was in at the minor football and St Pauls who are one of the strongest underage teams had two u14 and three u15s on their team. They are on the go for a good few years(I remember playing them a hundred years ago) yet seem to be down on numbers this year. I think that if amalgamations even short term ones get lads out hurling then they can only be good

This year

You had ballinakill and Abbeyleix amalgamate at Minor with the express intention of winning a minor A championship

Both are senior hurling clubs

Both had enough numbers to put out separate minor teams

Explain to me where this is right or fair or for that matter actually develops their own middling to weaker players who are left sitting on the sideline.

Itís also not fair on their standalone opponents who are doing their development in the right way and I
was delighted to see the Harps (a club who are going about their business in the right way, as regards juvenile development) best them in the final.

Spiritof1915

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1012 on: October 24, 2019, 10:44:08 AM »
With regards to the amalgamation idea I can see why people object to them but looking from the outside in is it not better that two rural clubs who may not have enough for a particular year actually field an amalgamation rather than each have 10 air 12 young fellas not playing at all. Ballacolla did it with Mountrath and won the minor a few years ago but I know from people out there that they really had only 10 players fit for minor. They joined up and now both have them players coming onto their adult teams. Some years you have a crop and others you have only 5 or 6. I was in at the minor football and St Pauls who are one of the strongest underage teams had two u14 and three u15s on their team. They are on the go for a good few years(I remember playing them a hundred years ago) yet seem to be down on numbers this year. I think that if amalgamations even short term ones get lads out hurling then they can only be good

This year

You had ballinakill and Abbeyleix amalgamate at Minor with the express intention of winning a minor A championship

Both are senior hurling clubs

Both had enough numbers to put out separate minor teams

Explain to me where this is right or fair or for that matter actually develops their own middling to weaker players who are left sitting on the sideline.

Itís also not fair on their standalone opponents who are doing their development in the right way and I
was delighted to see the Harps (a club who are going about their business in the right way, as regards juvenile development) best them in the final.
I know a few harps lads well and they undertook to change their underage structures a good few years ago and stop their gaels teams with Ballinakill. They went to senior B while Ballinakill are stilling competing strongly at senior level.
Their juvenile structures are now the strongest in the county and will undoubtedly pay dividends albeit with a psychologist for county finals.
Some of our strongest senior clubs ie camross are entering gaels teams at some levels which I think is a disaster for our counties hurling development.
Fair play to raheen parish gaels who are doing it right. Saw the need to amalgamate at all grades and are working hard to develop players

redsetanta

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1013 on: October 24, 2019, 11:06:35 AM »
Looking at the success of Rosenallis at senior level. As was said in another thread it is the coaching of young players that has them there. I am assuming that they did not have numbers underage either to compete on their own but they have managed to get two senior teams. To be honest without knowing much about it the Ballinakill Abbeyleix amalgamation was baffling.
How much better would Mountrath or Mountmellick be if they put as much effort in as Rosenallis have.
The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. VinceLombardi

burdizzo

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1014 on: October 24, 2019, 12:17:35 PM »
Rosenalis do have enough to compete on their own underage.
Ballinakill would be pretty tight on numbers in some age groups.
Mountrath are also tight on numbers at some levels, but then again, show absolutely no ambition to compete in 'A' even when they're capable of it.

clonadmad

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1015 on: October 24, 2019, 05:51:35 PM »
u13 to u20 is 15 a side or 13 a side if both teams agree to it

Surely most teams would have 13 hurlers ?

do we go down the road like KK and have a 13 or 11 a side division?,Ive no issues with that,it keeps chaps hurling and getting game time.

The other option is that clubs in a parish or in close geographic proximity to each other amalgamate,

but its across all juvenile grades and for a minimum of 5 years,that might cut out the bed hopping that some clubs have been indulging in.

 
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 05:54:12 PM by clonadmad »

Mad Mentor

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1016 on: October 24, 2019, 07:31:46 PM »
Minor 2020 championship should be a cracker as long as there are none of the recent marriage of convenience style amalgamations. B/K, R/E, Portlaoise, C/B, Harps and Abbeyleix would all fancy their chances. Rosenallis and Camross won't be far behind.

Portlaoise,The Harps,Abbeyleix and Camross would be my 4  to make a semifinal in 2020

Rosenallis are my dark horse

B/K,R/E and C/B I donít think will be in the mix as they werenít strong this year and their u15ís did little this year also.

I completely agree with you,as regards those one year amalgamations,they shouldnít be allowed full stop.

B/K won the u15 two years ago, comfortably beating Portlaoise in the final. R/E won the league without losing a game, and only lost to both Portlaoise and B/K in championship by a point each time. Both of these and C/B would consider themselves stronger for 2020 than 2019.

Jd

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1017 on: October 25, 2019, 09:41:22 AM »
I get what youíre saying re two  strong clubs joining up in a particular year just to target a particular competition and I think we all agree that itís wrong. My point was with regard to the small rural clubs who genuinely struggle with numbers and possibly in a certain year just have 8 or9 players. What do they do.  The under 13 or under 11 games are not an option in Laois so where does that leave them seven or eight kids. My point about Saint Pauls was that it is a long established and very strong amalgamation yet this years minor team had two under 14s and a few under 15s on their team. If they have low numbers then certainly other teams are struggling to put out teams. One poster said that clubs should be developing their own kids but if the numbers are not there then they cannot be developed. A lot on here say then the small clubs should amalgamate fully but Iíd be of a different opinion. A sense of place and community and winning a small competition with your own generates a lot more goodwill and dare I say hype in your own area than possibly just competing at a higher level with a bigger joined unit. Just my opinion though

blueandwhite1

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1018 on: October 25, 2019, 10:30:21 AM »
Your opinion is completely valid.

One question I would ask though is whether fears of identity loss are really well founded.

Ask an Errill or Kilcotton man if they still have their identities. I can guarantee you that they do. They are probably enhanced rather than diminished by the amalgamations as they get to express their identities on a much bigger stage than they would without the amalgamation.

The other observation I would have is the fear that amalgamations push out young hurlers that aren't at the top level. I don't believe this happens either. At adult level most amalgamations and big clubs have Junior B, Junior A, Intermediate / Senior B as well as a Senior team. It is very challenging to fill all of these teams. No young fella ever was turned away from a club who wanted to hurl. If they are good enough to make a minor A team then they get to play at that grade but if they are not then there is always the option of a minor B team if there are numbers. However, even the bigger clubs struggle to get those sorts of numbers in training at underage.

Not saying people's opinions are not valid but often the fear of what might happen and what actually happens are very different. I'm making the point about amalgamations and not for temporary marriages of convenience which I'm not a big fan of.

blueandwhite1

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Re: The future of laois hurling
« Reply #1019 on: October 25, 2019, 10:38:57 AM »
Your opinion is completely valid.

One question I would ask though is whether fears of identity loss are really well founded.

Ask an Errill or Kilcotton man if they still have their identities. I can guarantee you that they do. They are probably enhanced rather than diminished by the amalgamations as they get to express their identities on a much bigger stage than they would without the amalgamation.

The other observation I would have is the fear that amalgamations push out young hurlers that aren't at the top level. I don't believe this happens either. At adult level most amalgamations and big clubs have Junior B, Junior A, Intermediate / Senior B as well as a Senior team. It is very challenging to fill all of these teams. No young fella ever was turned away from a club who wanted to hurl. If they are good enough to make a minor A team then they get to play at that grade but if they are not then there is always the option of a minor B team if there are numbers. However, even the bigger clubs struggle to get those sorts of numbers in training at underage.

Not saying people's opinions are not valid but often the fear of what might happen and what actually happens are very different. I'm making the point about amalgamations and not for temporary marriages of convenience which I'm not a big fan of.

One other point - who are the most successful amalgamation in Laois? Rathdowney-Errill? Borris-Kilcotton? Not by a long shot. Camross and Killanure were two junior clubs in Laois before 1957. They amalgamated and their combined colours were black and amber. They won junior in 1957, Intermediate in 1958 and their first of 27 Laois senior titles in 1959. Most people don't even know they are an amalgamation. I'd say the kids in Killanure have a fairly solid identity.