Search for New Mayo Manager

[Blowitupref]

As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.

They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.

[From the Bunker]

Did they really regress that much with H & C though ?? They lost a replay to the all Ireland winners, same as last year!! Every team is ambitious I would say but to think these guys know what it takes to win an all Ireland is highly dubious. Maybe these lads know of another forward or two that could take them there. Because that's what's been missing imho . We'll wait to see who becomes manager I guess, he has a job on his hands!!

More than scoring forwards from play they need, will the next Mayo management be able to sort out the defensive issues that the last two managements couldn't?

Well that's the idea isn't it. These two lads clearly didn't know how to. They're preparation was a level below what Horan provided so they had to go. Saying the players have to win the AI next year is missing the point. The players were certain they could not win it with these lads. The replay game was a shambles and the next management must have a better defensive structure in place along with improving pre match preparation. All of the above is more important than finding new forwards.

That's it all in summary. The easy thing to do for the players was sit on their hands. Time is running out and if this went on for another year it could have got a lot more messy. Sad exit for Holmes and Connelly, but that's the harsh reality of Sport. Hopefully they take a break away from the madness of the last couple of weeks, dust themselves down and give some other project a go.

[thewobbler]

As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.

They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.

See, me as a neutral, I don't see these as huge defensive problems. Yep they've a tendency to concede goals, but the trade-off is that few Mayo defenders get roasted for point scoring. They don't concede as many frees either.

Maybe it's the wrong approach, and they should actually bate the living shite out of anyone who has a sniff at goal instead.

The last 4 Championship exits were 4 points in the final when they came out scared, 1 pt in the final, 3 points in an ET SF replay, and a SF replay where they were in it til the last couple of minutes. You might point these narrow deficits as a defensive problems, and you know what, you might even be right.

From my neutral standpoint though, the biggest problem for Mayo against the big teams hasn't been in containing them, it's been in dominating them and hurting them. Different viewpoints, that's all.

[From the Bunker]

As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.

They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.

See, me as a neutral, I don't see these as huge defensive problems. Yep they've a tendency to concede goals, but the trade-off is that few Mayo defenders get roasted for point scoring. They don't concede as many frees either.

Maybe it's the wrong approach, and they should actually bate the living shite out of anyone who has a sniff at goal instead.

The last 4 Championship exits were 4 points in the final, 1 pt in the final, 3 points in an ET SF replay, and an ET replay where they were in it til the last couple of minutes. You might point these narrow deficits as a defensive problems, and you know what, you might even be right.

From my neutral standpoint though, the biggest problem for Mayo against the big teams hasn't been in containing them, it's been in dominating them and hurting them. Different viewpoints, that's all.

From a non neutral point of view, We stink in the back line. We did ok against a tired Donegal side. But just look at our record otherwise.

[Lar Naparka]

Y'know I feel sorry for the two bucks. I hate to see anyone being humiliated...There but for the grace of God and all that...They probably have wives and families and close friends who will be upset also at the way things turned out.
But as I've said before, they were dead men walking when they took on the job. Nothing less than an All-Ireland would get them off the hook- where they had hung themselves.
The team had sweated blood and tears under Horan and they'd have knocked down the gates of Hell to get him out, if the occasion arose. I imagine they do the same for Noel and Pateen but it would be in reverse if that pair stayed around much longer.
I don't think it would take a degree in rocket science to figure that out.

Horan almost got them to the Holy Land several times but bad luck and Horan's unwillingness to see things other than his way meant that they came up short each time. I have to say some of the players don't seem capable of thinking on their feet and show a bit of initiative when things aren't working out. Horan wasn't the only one who lacked tactical sense.
The least the team should have expected when JH left was that the CB would take its time and come up with someone, capable of taking up where he left off and hopefully add that  bit extra into the mix to edge them over the line.
Instead they got two tulips- neither of whom showed any interest or willingness to take on the job.
Holmes went further and said he wasn't interested. Connelly's brother takes over as chairman and suddenly he appears on the scene with Holmes at his side and that's what the team got.
A patched up combo to suit the CB's interests and to hell with the team's chances of winning anything. Then once the preparations got underway, it became obvious that the  CB was intent on clawing back every bit of a bonus that Horan squeezed out of them.
The catering company who provided the grub after matches and training sessions was let go. Cutbacks were the order of the day, two managers who weren't enthusiastic about taking on the job  and who were only there to keep McStay out.
I know lads on four legs who would be able to cop on that things were always going to wind up badly for all concerned.

[moysider]

Fair play to the two for resigning is right. They're Mayomen at the end of the day and knew the game was up and didn't want this saga dragging out too long. So after the mutiny who will come in?

I find it difficult to have much sympathy for H&C. You will remember some weeks ago I said I believed they should as consider their position. The player stance was not a surprise so I dunno what the secretary was on about. I also think they allowed themselves to be set up in a cushy arrangement last year and never looked comfortable.

Many of us thought last year that this might be a gap year and fair play to the players for having a very decent cut at it. The last 2 weeks are damaging and remains to be seen how much damage has been done.

Who will come in? Who knows but the immediate problem has been addressed. However at least one of the people that caused the problem is still the biggest wolf on the lot. Of course the players cannot choose who will manage them but do you honestly trust Mike Connolly and co.(after all that has been said and done) to get it right now?

I know it s unlikely to happen but at next board meeting there should be a motion of no confidence in the chairman and maybe secretary as well because of how this appointment was made in the first place and handled at the end. I m hearing of issues during the year as well including when one individualwas  in dressing room that should not have been there.

I think to an extent that Pat and Nole were patsies in this story. Willing participants but still patsies. imo talking about a new manager is a waste of time unless the upper deck is cleared.

[Captain Obvious]

I have to say I'm a massive fan of this generation of Mayo footballers. In some aspects of the game - tackling, midfield exchanges, athleticism - they're as good as any team I've ever seen, and they tend to swat off inferior opposition in the way top class sides really should. They're a truly relentless shower of b**tards once their tails are up.

And once Parsons emerged (re-emerged) this year I was so impressed with how they addressed their full-forward line problems by committing Aidan O'Shea to a role where he'll only touch the ball maybe 10-12 times in game. It actually takes a lot of balls to take the heartbeat of your team and use him, in effect, as a limb.

But, particularly in game 1 vs Dublin, it was a bit disconcerting that the team seemed so determined that he had to be option 1, 2 and 3. They made him a "limb" but were determined to keep him as the "heart". It was plain wrong. Mayo's athleticism means that they will routinely wreck just about anyone by simply running at opposition. The problem they've faced against the cream of the crop in recent years is that those big opponents also happen to be athletic, and tended to push Mayo down blind alleys.  So Mayo needed variation. They needed a long ball option. But rather than accept that AOS touching the ball 6-8 times in a game would keep every opponent on their toes and probably provide the variation they need to floor anyone, for some reason they felt the need to kick every last feckin ball at him.

And as a result, Philly McMahon is now the best player in Ireland. He didn't have to concentrate, he just had to reply to the onslaught of crap ball.

Anyway, it would seem that the Mayo players are putting this problem at the feet of the management. Well, here's my beef. The players are the ones who kick those balls (most of them weren't passes), and if players as experienced and influential as Keith Higgins, Colm Boyle, Lee Keegan, Seamus O'Shea and Kevin McLoughlin choose to inanely follow this tactic, then they shouldn't have any say in who should be managing their team. They should be looking hard and long at themselves, not their mentors.

Genuinely I hope this works out for Mayo; at this point in my life I'd almost rather they win an All-Ireland than Down. But having watched experienced Mayo players make decisions and follow a script, in that game, that would have upset me greatly if they had have done it for me at Junior B level, I'm not sure we're ever going to see it. Not with this bunch.

- - -

As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.

Very few will agree with that footnote opinion.

[thewobbler]

From the Bunker, you should try watching a Down / Meath / Galway ** defence in recent years to understand what stinking in the back line means.

Mayo's midfield wins 7-8 out of every 10 exchanges, and their half-back line consists of probably the best pick-pocketers I've ever seen. So their full-back line doesn't face an onslaught, ever. As a result there seems to be a belief within that camp that they don't need to overly protect their full back line. Especially as the likes of Higgins, Cunniffe, Vaughan, Barrett and Cafferky can hold their own in any 50:50 battle; they're all quality defenders at an individual level. Doesn't mean they will win them all, just means that if 20 balls go in, 10 go straight out.

It's a remarkably good ratio anyhow, from what I've seen. Enough to win at least one All-Ireland. No doubt they could protect that full-back line a little more, but my own gut feeling is that the players know that their forwards can't win a game by themselves, so their half-backs and midfield are drawn forward to overlap. Which, again, I think could work for Mayo... especially if a plan B exists (O'Shea). The problem this year, in my opinion, is that Mayo were still moving forward in Plan A, but ALWAYS kicking Plan B.

----

** I mention those counties as they're of a similar stature to Mayo in terms of history, but these days have nothing even remotely posing a defensive talent or structure to compete for an All Ireland.

[Shrewdness]

Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.

[mayo.mick]

Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.

His demands for the team would cost the county board too much? Same as Horan demanded and indeed had many's the row with them over.

[Rossfan]

Was it a case of empty coffers and H and C prepared to work within the budget while McS wanted a Horanesque budget???

[macdanger2]

Was it a case of empty coffers and H and C prepared to work within the budget while McS wanted a Horanesque budget???

I can't say for sure but that's probably a reasonable description of it

[criostlinn]

As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.

They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.

You see this right here. This is a nothing but the typical nonsense you see from some lads on this board. This is a man who was listening to Joe Brolly one day and as Joe was in full flow someone came in to offer him a cup of tea. He picked up some of Joe's bullshit but has made a total hames of rehashing it as his own on this board

[dferg]

Mayo remind me a bit of the guys from the end of dumb and dumber where they say if we keep our eyes peeled we will catch our break eventually.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLB-uMPj27s

Horan is a great manager and brought them from no where in 2010 to contenders every year but I think they missed there best chance in 2014. They had 2 chances and didn't figure out that Donaghy is a special case and they needed a big man to mark him e.g. Barry Moran.  If they stopped Donaghy by breaking any ball round him they would have won fairly comfortable and probably would have beat Donegal.  This year they had a harder draw but they found themselves 5 up with 15 to go and didn't know how to kill the game. Donegal in the same position the year before got everyone back and suckered punched Dublin every time they over committed going forward. Mayo need to take one of there chances soon or they could easily miss the boat with this team.

[Blowitupref]

As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.

They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.

You see this right here. This is a nothing but the typical nonsense you see from some lads on this board. This is a man who was listening to Joe Brolly one day and as Joe was in full flow someone came in to offer him a cup of tea. He picked up some of Joe's bullshit but has made a total hames of rehashing it as his own on this board

I don't listen or read the views of Joe Brolly. If he said something similar he would probably be right on this rare occasion.