Disciplinary hearings are destroying the game

[Catch and Kick]

Lot of comment on here defending referees. This decision has nothing to do with refereeing.
The whole process is flawed from the very beginning of the reporting of incidents.
Yet if we start with referees, they are part of the problem too.
Referees can be vindictive and some of them go to the rule book before they writer their report.
They are not content to report a player they have sent off but they take it further and want to decide the length of suspension a player receives. That is the function of the committee dealing with the report - and the refs know this. By consulting the rule book they can report the incident to ensure the committee MUST impose the higher suspension. After that the appeals system cannot commute or give the appropriate suspension. That's a fact and it happens.
This is an abuse of their position.
At club level how often have we seen referees not sending off players for clear striking actions - depending on who it is?

County Boards, Provincial and Croke Park Committees are past masters at confusing everyone with their rulings and interpretations. And even though it's not in the rule book, 'common sense' or 'natural justice' has no place in the system - when clearly there are occasions when it must apply.

To my mind layers of the appeal system need to be done away with.
A Disciplinary Commissioner should be given power to adjudicate on controversial decisions - or non decisions.
Both sides should present their evidence and hear it being presented by the other side and have an opportunity to refute it; the Commissioner should also be able to use video evidence as he sees fit.
The Commissioner should be able to speak in plain English and not hide behind rules.
There the matter should rest.
Committees should be done away with - there are too many of them, too many committee members play politics,  too many of them re there for the expenses, too many of them are career committee members and they are intimidating for individuals to appeal to.
In addition the heads of the CCC and the CHC are both solicitors and can baffle and bamboozle appellants. They are both of impeccable character BUT justice is not being served and they know it. To them it's almost like their version of playing the game. It's a contest between their legal proficiency and that of the individual.
Time to end the nonsense.

Just cause you say the word fact doesn't make it fact!!  When someone punches a player twice in gbe face while he's on the ground and gets away with it is a nonsense... Saying all referees look to the rule book after match is over to write up a report is another nonsense

I've been involved with teams for many years and it does happen. I didn't say every referee - I said 'some'.
I didn't dispute the fact that he struck him twice on the ground. He didn't get off for not striking! That's the whole point - technicalities are more important than fact and justice.
The disciplinary process is completely dominated by doing things right instead of doing the right thing....
Read my post again!

You say its got nothing to do with referees but go onto lambasting referees and questioning their integrity???  Like you I've played many many years managed juveniles and senior teams at my club... But having refereed these past 6/7 years o find it daft that peoples perceptions of what a referee does or doesn't do is comical.... FACT 

Yes I did. This particular decision had nothing to do with the ref. It was procedural.
And what I said was that the first breakdown in the process begins with referees. Don't tell me there aren't vindictive refs out there. Eddie Kinsella today made mistakes but he was really good at communicating to players and players can live with mistakes when you have a ref who has empathy for them. Others are dictators who refuse to engage with a player. Indeed I have often heard referees dish out abuse. Tell me you haven't.... the give respect get respect campaign should also have included 'earn respect' because clearly SOME referees do not.

Abuse?? Why would I get involved with abuse with a player when I've the black card to brandish?? I've no time for arseholes who continue to whine during a game... Nor should any referee.. Monkey sees monkey does... Players mimic there coaches, you seem the type... Hard done by, always everyone else's fault, well listen up I've played against teams that never talk back to referees they are disciplined throughout and gain respect big time... A referee is only there to officiate... He won't get it all the time but neither will you.

Players in all football forms are afforded the right to ask why a decision is made. Lot of made of this in rugby in particular. I'm not talking about badgering a referee but we all know that in gaelic football consistency in applying rules varies from referee to referee and often even in the same game. Give players credit too - they're not monkeys and they're able to think for themselves and don't need to mimic their coaches. By the way I'd be a strict disciplinarian myself. But that's irrelevant; personal abuse is often the currency of contributors on this board.

[Catch and Kick]

Lot of comment on here defending referees. This decision has nothing to do with refereeing.
The whole process is flawed from the very beginning of the reporting of incidents.
Yet if we start with referees, they are part of the problem too.
Referees can be vindictive and some of them go to the rule book before they writer their report.
They are not content to report a player they have sent off but they take it further and want to decide the length of suspension a player receives. That is the function of the committee dealing with the report - and the refs know this. By consulting the rule book they can report the incident to ensure the committee MUST impose the higher suspension. After that the appeals system cannot commute or give the appropriate suspension. That's a fact and it happens.
This is an abuse of their position.
At club level how often have we seen referees not sending off players for clear striking actions - depending on who it is?

County Boards, Provincial and Croke Park Committees are past masters at confusing everyone with their rulings and interpretations. And even though it's not in the rule book, 'common sense' or 'natural justice' has no place in the system - when clearly there are occasions when it must apply.

To my mind layers of the appeal system need to be done away with.
A Disciplinary Commissioner should be given power to adjudicate on controversial decisions - or non decisions.
Both sides should present their evidence and hear it being presented by the other side and have an opportunity to refute it; the Commissioner should also be able to use video evidence as he sees fit.
The Commissioner should be able to speak in plain English and not hide behind rules.
There the matter should rest.
Committees should be done away with - there are too many of them, too many committee members play politics,  too many of them re there for the expenses, too many of them are career committee members and they are intimidating for individuals to appeal to.
In addition the heads of the CCC and the CHC are both solicitors and can baffle and bamboozle appellants. They are both of impeccable character BUT justice is not being served and they know it. To them it's almost like their version of playing the game. It's a contest between their legal proficiency and that of the individual.
Time to end the nonsense.

Just cause you say the word fact doesn't make it fact!!  When someone punches a player twice in gbe face while he's on the ground and gets away with it is a nonsense... Saying all referees look to the rule book after match is over to write up a report is another nonsense

I've been involved with teams for many years and it does happen. I didn't say every referee - I said 'some'.
I didn't dispute the fact that he struck him twice on the ground. He didn't get off for not striking! That's the whole point - technicalities are more important than fact and justice.
The disciplinary process is completely dominated by doing things right instead of doing the right thing....
Read my post again!

You say its got nothing to do with referees but go onto lambasting referees and questioning their integrity???  Like you I've played many many years managed juveniles and senior teams at my club... But having refereed these past 6/7 years o find it daft that peoples perceptions of what a referee does or doesn't do is comical.... FACT 

Yes I did. This particular decision had nothing to do with the ref. It was procedural.
And what I said was that the first breakdown in the process begins with referees. Don't tell me there aren't vindictive refs out there. Eddie Kinsella today made mistakes but he was really good at communicating to players and players can live with mistakes when you have a ref who has empathy for them. Others are dictators who refuse to engage with a player. Indeed I have often heard referees dish out abuse. Tell me you haven't.... the give respect get respect campaign should also have included 'earn respect' because clearly SOME referees do not.

Abuse?? Why would I get involved with abuse with a player when I've the black card to brandish?? I've no time for arseholes who continue to whine during a game... Nor should any referee.. Monkey sees monkey does... Players mimic there coaches, you seem the type... Hard done by, always everyone else's fault, well listen up I've played against teams that never talk back to referees they are disciplined throughout and gain respect big time... A referee is only there to officiate... He won't get it all the time but neither will you.

Players in all football forms are afforded the right to ask why a decision is made. Lot of made of this in rugby in particular. I'm not talking about badgering a referee but we all know that in gaelic football consistency in applying rules varies from referee to referee and often even in the same game. Give players credit too - they're not monkeys and they're able to think for themselves and don't need to mimic their coaches. By the way I'd be a strict disciplinarian myself. But that's irrelevant; personal abuse is often the currency of contributors on this board.

I've been seen critical tweets by an established referee (an inter county ref) about the performance of a fellow ref in the same county! Respect!

[Wildweasel74]

Disgraceful decision to let off a repeat offender, people say the decision was correct, how? he obviously hit his man as caught on camera, no this ain't a court of law this is amateur Gaelic football, Lawyers should not be allowed even at appeals nosing through the rule book looking for flaws to get GUILTY people off. Had alot of time for the Dubs but after the last game and this carry on  i think they No.2 on my hate list behind Tyrone. County Boards, Managers and players take no responsibility for breaking the rules and then trying to get off. This will open the door to countless appeals to players sent off for striking. Gaelic football stinks at the minute that that overshadows such a great game today. Gaelic football was way better back in the 90`s at least players took their suspensions. If players had the self respect of a certain waterfold hurler and abide by GAA decisions the counties who chase these loop holes wouldn't be a laughing stock. its only a matter of time before a county team appeals losing a match over a decision during the game.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Disgraceful decision to let off a repeat offender, people say the decision was correct, how? he obviously hit his man as caught on camera, no this ain't a court of law this is amateur Gaelic football, Lawyers should not be allowed even at appeals nosing through the rule book looking for flaws to get GUILTY people off. Had alot of time for the Dubs but after the last game and this carry on  i think they No.2 on my hate list behind Tyrone...

Yaaaay! We're still number one on someone's list, some fecking where!

[Wildweasel74]

Oh your still the team the countyr loves to hate but dublin gaining ground at the rate of knots.

[David McKeown]

Just a couple of points. The problem here doesn't lie with the rule book at all. It's endemic with in modern society. Disciplinary procedures are difficult to follow in any sport I mean just look at the NFL and how their incredibly well paid team of lawyers have fallen short in recent years. The GAA are far from the worst offenders

Furthermore and consequently the DRA provide a necessary and effective role in providing oversight and removing the possibility of court action. The DRA in fact having been founded in response to players securing interlocutory injunctions from courts in order to play in games.

[rrhf]

Everyone earning a wage from the gaa should be put on unpaid garden leave.  Until they write a simple 2 page rulebook fit for purpose.

[vallankumous]

It made the GAA the most talked about sport in the Country yesterday. Not bad with a Rugby international. Too often replays don't get the same level of excitement as a SF proper might.

[rrhf]

Yes if you enjoy the facts that other sports see us for buck eejits

[Farrandeelin]

Mayo management ensured Keane not only wasn't getting on last week, but wouldn't play him yesterday either.

[heffo]

Saw this mentioned on BookFace, this whole mess could probably get even worse...



This was (supposedly) the list of 26 Dublin players listed in todays match programme...



There's one notable Dublin name not in that list of 26 - Diarmuid Connolly, who started the game.

Now someone out there will probably know better than I do, but haven't the Dubs broken Rule 6.35(b) here? While I would seriously doubt Mayo would peruse such an action, haven't the Dubs played an illegal player here thus forfeiting the game and if so, why did they go to the DRA to get his suspension lifted when it was only for one game in the first place?

No it probably definitely won't as there is a clear rule to allow the late naming of a player cleared in circumstances like this week

[Wildweasel74]

Was Rory O`Connell of westmeath not the first man to start this bullshit, He not get a court injunction to play in a game 10/11yrs back? DRA brought in to cover this and have let off many offenders from various countries since as its all about them and not the GAA in general. Fairplay and the GAA don't go hand in hand. We deride the diving of soccer players but our players are not much better.

[Bord na Mona man]

Was Rory O`Connell of westmeath not the first man to start this bullshit, He not get a court injunction to play in a game 10/11yrs back? DRA brought in to cover this and have let off many offenders from various countries since as its all about them and not the GAA in general. Fairplay and the GAA don't go hand in hand. We deride the diving of soccer players but our players are not much better.

In 1994, Tipperary footballer Derry Foley went to the High Court to get an injunction against a suspension so he could play in the championship. Clare tried and failed to get an injunction to get Colin Lynch off the hook in 1998 also.
It was just starting to become rampant when the O'Connell case hit the courts in 2004. Which was the same year as John Mullane went against the grain and accepted his punishment for picking up a red card.
Does the passage of time make John Mullane look more of a fool or a hero for somehow feeling honour bound to accept his sanction?

[deiseach]

Does the passage of time make John Mullane look more of a fool or a hero for somehow feeling honour bound to accept his sanction?

A fool, unfortunately. The heroic thing seems to be to stick it to The GAA, aka The Man.

[twohands!!!]

Does the passage of time make John Mullane look more of a fool or a hero for somehow feeling honour bound to accept his sanction?

A fool, unfortunately. The heroic thing seems to be to stick it to The GAA, aka The Man.

A decent man in my eyes.

I have zero respect for any of the individuals who went down the appeal route trying to weasel out of stuff on technicalities.

It's just sc**bag behaviour in my eyes.