journalists trying to influence/lobby rule makers and disciplinary procedures.

[Bingo]

The Knee Jerk Principle I think.

What's being forgot here, is the identification of the journalists who were lifting the phone to Croke Park?

In all of this mess, that in true GAA style continues to grow, this is the most laughable part of it all. Like some Chinese whisper that a number of journalists have a hotline to the CCCC and can call the shots. Media reaction is one thing but this is extremely unlikely. Laughable even.

[muppet]

The dive was unsightly, no question and none of us want to see that sort of thing.

However it is almost always done in a split second so it is instinctive rather than coldly malicious. A lad might already regret it within a couple of seconds. Frankie Dolan and Ray Connelly springs to mind, where Connelly was sent off but Dolan, who had dived, was trying to change the refs mind. (At least that is how I remember that - correct me if I am wrong).

The real problem with the dive is that the officials failed to see it and thus failed to act accordingly. This is the real problem in my opinion. The discussions should be how to deal with this, or how to provide more information or assistance, in real time, to the beleaguered referees to help them deal with diving as it happens. Even with the Connelly example I mentioned the ref wouldn't change his mind even though Dolan told him (I think) he wasn't hit.

Banning a fella for 8 weeks, with no precedent, and considering Brolly's legal argument, leaves a very sour taste and is worse behaviour, in my opinion, than the behaviour that they are trying to deter.

Right sentiment maybe, but very poor execution.

[Hardy]

I disagree. Any time an association is seen to be making up inconsistent punishments to placate a media or social media frenzy is a bad day for the game. Deal with it properly and I'm fully on board.

A reasonable position, but in this case, in the battle between proper and effective, I'm for effective. This will get the message out.

What message though? I think the message it gets out is 'We're sick of Tyrone'. That's wrong.

What's wrong with it? We are sick of them.

Seriously, I think the message is, 'we're sick of diving'. I think everybody other than the Tyrone whinge chorus here laughs at  the "Southern media/Southern GAA/free state b**tards out to get us" nonsense. It should be embarrassing but large numbers of them seem to be unembarrassable.

The thing is Hardy, I always laughed at that too, but how do we explain away the fact that we have 4 cases below of men feigning injury in order to get opponents in trouble. In no incident was the diver punished retrospectively. Then we have Tiernan McCann do something very similar, and whammo, although not before a Colm O'Rourke rant.

I agree with the sentiment re. diving, but I suppose the old maxim applies as far as I'm concerned. Justice must be done, but Justice must also be seen to be done. In this case it appears unjust to me to treat one lad differently.

http://www.balls.ie/gaa/gifs-following-michael-shields-fall-recalling-3-other-notorious-dives-in-the-gaa/302098

AZ, we could debate this all day. You're not wrong and my position can justly be attacked as the old "bring back Lugs Branagan" syndrome. Be that as it may, if this has the desired effect in making a huge contribution to eradicating the one aspect of the game I abhor above all else, I'll be happy. And I'll come back to restore the justice at a later date. We can get to the new rules at the next congress and I'll be happy to apologise to McCann then for his unjust treatment.

As regards consistency, as I said, it's impossible in the absolute. And in any case, there are degrees of culpability that can excuse, to some extent, the differences in treatment. Shields's behaviour was abominable. But at least there was contact in his case. To that extent, McCann's was even worse. As bad as the worst I've seen in any sport, Rivaldo included. The fact that we ignored something else shouldn't mean we have to ignore that, if the greater good is better served by doing something effective to put a stop to this.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

I've argued for the same thing in soccer. A panel sits and reviews contentious incidents from the weekend and hands out bans based on their review. I think the clutching the face while flailing dramatically after no facial contact would be fairly easy to identify.

They do this in MLS now

[AhNowRef]

Couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread but this 8 week ban is probably very harsh considering, as other people have pointed out, that there was no action against Michael Shields in the Munster Final.

HOWEVER, I think most GAA supporters would agree that this diving/ simulation/ trying to get people sent off is a blight on the game.
A strong message needs sent out to try and eradicate it so its probably something that needs to happen.

It is unfortunate for Tyrone that its their man that has been highlighted.
It was highlighted about Michael Shields weeks ago but no action was taken.
Had an 8 week ban been handed out then to Shields, McCann may not have considered diving for fear of retribution and this hoohaa surrounding it wouldn't be taking place.

Some county was going to suffer the consequences of this eventually as the GAA weren't going to let this happen indefinitely.
Tyrone are the unfortunate ones.

But why should Shields have got an 8 week ban for a yellow card offence?

Fair point.
Should it be more than a yellow card offence for there to be an effective way of removing these actions from our game?

But Cavanaugh took a dive when he got a tip in the belly from McManus. Is that worthy of a ban too? There was more contact than McCann got, but no less of a dive. Where does the line get drawn?
But to be honest, that's all irrelevant. It does not matter what any individual thinks should be the punishment, all that matters is that the rulebook states that feigning injury is a yellow card offence.

I've no problem with McCann being embarrassed, and every single diver / injury feigner on their team having their manliness being called into question - but banning any of them for it is just ridiculous!

This case really winds me up - Cavanaugh is well to the side from where McManus is running - Mc Manus moves towards him with his elbow jutting out and bangs into him. Cavanaugh falls down. He didn't instigate the incident and somehow it's his fault for falling down. If McManus had breezed past him, never touching him and Cavanaugh had fallen down then yes accuse him of cheating but this is ridiculous.

Cavanagh feigned injury (cheating)at least twice in the match resulting in no football being played (you know, the reason everyone tunes in) for about 4/5 mins...you're trying to defend the indefensible, the man is a serial offender

Can you please let us know when these 2 incidents happened .. i.e. what was the game time ?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

And it doesn't bother you at all Hardy, that the GAA are setting themselves up perfectly as a laughing stock with seat of the pants decisions such as these? That's sure to instil implicit respect for the rules, not to mention relieving referees of the absolute necessity of enforcing the rules as they are; pandemonium here we come. 

Edit Oh, and you can take your embarrassment and shove it as far up your Meath hole as you can manage.

[rrhf]

I disagree. Any time an association is seen to be making up inconsistent punishments to placate a media or social media frenzy is a bad day for the game. Deal with it properly and I'm fully on board.

A reasonable position, but in this case, in the battle between proper and effective, I'm for effective. This will get the message out.

What message though? I think the message it gets out is 'We're sick of Tyrone'. That's wrong.

What's wrong with it? We are sick of them.

Seriously, I think the message is, 'we're sick of diving'. I think everybody other than the Tyrone whinge chorus here laughs at  the "Southern media/Southern GAA/free state b**tards out to get us" nonsense. It should be embarrassing but large numbers of them seem to be unembarrassable.

The thing is Hardy, I always laughed at that too, but how do we explain away the fact that we have 4 cases below of men feigning injury in order to get opponents in trouble. In no incident was the diver punished retrospectively. Then we have Tiernan McCann do something very similar, and whammo, although not before a Colm O'Rourke rant.

I agree with the sentiment re. diving, but I suppose the old maxim applies as far as I'm concerned. Justice must be done, but Justice must also be seen to be done. In this case it appears unjust to me to treat one lad differently.

http://www.balls.ie/gaa/gifs-following-michael-shields-fall-recalling-3-other-notorious-dives-in-the-gaa/302098

AZ, we could debate this all day. You're not wrong and my position can justly be attacked as the old "bring back Lugs Branagan" syndrome. Be that as it may, if this has the desired effect in making a huge contribution to eradicating the one aspect of the game I abhor above all else, I'll be happy. And I'll come back to restore the justice at a later date. We can get to the new rules at the next congress and I'll be happy to apologise to McCann then for his unjust treatment.

As regards consistency, as I said, it's impossible in the absolute. And in any case, there are degrees of culpability that can excuse, to some extent, the differences in treatment. Shields's behaviour was abominable. But at least there was contact in his case. To that extent, McCann's was even worse. As bad as the worst I've seen in any sport, Rivaldo included.
You are heavily coloured in your perspective Hardy - The Aidan O Mahony is the worst ever seen in Irish sport...  well since Pat Spillane. 

The fact that we ignored something else shouldn't mean we have to ignore that, if the greater good is better served by doing something effective to put a stop to this.

[orangeman]

Were the members of the cccc on the drink when they decided to propose 8 weeks ?

I'd love to hear what they say at the Hearings / Appeals committee to justify their actions. I hope their logic / rationale is made public for future reference.

[deiseach]

Were the members of the cccc on the drink when they decided to propose 8 weeks ?

I'd love to hear what they say at the Hearings / Appeals committee to justify their actions. I hope their logic / rationale is made public for future reference.

That would be helpful all right.

[muppet]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0812/720713-eight-week-ban-proposed-for-tiernan-mccann/

Brolly wrote on Twitter: "My view is the use of the specific provision is illegal. The law of statutory interpretation applies to any rule. The lawmaker (Congress) has created a specific offence of simulation with a specific penalty (yellow card).

"Tiernan's only offence, as a matter of law, is simulation, since the lawmaker is presumed to mean what he says. If this were not so, then the disrepute provision could be used to override any offence, perverse though that would be. So, for example, a striking offence could be charged as disrepute.

"The decision is therefore unlawful. It is a manipulation of the law to punish Tiernan more severely than the law allows.

"The central point is that feigning is feigning. The penalty is a yellow card. How can any single act of feigning be worse? The point of the rule is to create certainty for the player & the GAA. If misconduct can override it the rule is worthless."

Brolly concluded: "The case is most certainly headed for the DRA."

[omagh_gael]

Hardy, I'm am surprised at your take on this, you appear to be a logical man and dislike the yerra/wink-wink nudge-nudge culture and this case couldn't be any further from basic logic. The whole thing stinks of bias and you're point about there at least being contact with Shields is patently wrong as there was contact between Hughes and McCann as well. If that was your red line then the book should have been thrown at Lundy, the Slaughtneil man tackled the ball and Lundy dropped holding his face. Are you going to start measuring the pressure of contact to determine yellow card v disrepute?

As AZ is continually pointing out (alongside irrefutable video evidence) there is significant amount of, recent, precedent that can be used to dump the disrepute charge on it's head. This is a farcical, agenda driven issue that is fuelled by the bias of certain individuals in the media and in this instance your own bias.

Just to be clear as well, I completely condone Tiernan's actions and the cynical nature of the current Tyrone team is embarrassing. However, the issue needs tackled on a nationwide basis and through the proper channels.

[BennyHarp]

AZ has made the point on here better than I could but if this was the first ever incident of diving to occur in the GAA and we were setting a precedent, then I'd be happy to accept that Tiernan McCann's silly actions deserve a retrospective ban and if 8 weeks was what was decided then fair enough. However, there is a bigger picture here and the GAA have to be very careful that they are not seen to be driven by the media and must not be seen to be acting in a way that is descriminatory towards one county. The Micheal Shields, Aiden O'Mahony, Aiden O'Se etc incidents have (whether we like it or not) set the precedent here and unless a rule is passed at congress then this can only be considered unfair to single out a player and county for retrospective punishment greater than a yellow card.

[AZOffaly]

Hardy, I'm am surprised at your take on this, you appear to be a logical man and dislike the yerra/wink-wink nudge-nudge culture and this case couldn't be any further from basic logic. The whole thing stinks of bias and you're point about there at least being contact with Shields is patently wrong as there was contact between Hughes and McCann as well. If that was your red line then the book should have been thrown at Lundy, the Slaughtneil man tackled the ball and Lundy dropped holding his face. Are you going to start measuring the pressure of contact to determine yellow card v disrepute?

As AZ is continually pointing out (alongside irrefutable video evidence) there is significant amount of, recent, precedent that can be used to dump the disrepute charge on it's head. This is a farcical, agenda driven issue that is fuelled by the bias of certain individuals in the media and in this instance your own bias.

Just to be clear as well, I completely condone Tiernan's actions and the cynical nature of the current Tyrone team is embarrassing. However, the issue needs tackled on a nationwide basis and through the proper channels.

Freudian slip?

[muppet]

Hardy, I'm am surprised at your take on this, you appear to be a logical man and dislike the yerra/wink-wink nudge-nudge culture and this case couldn't be any further from basic logic. The whole thing stinks of bias and you're point about there at least being contact with Shields is patently wrong as there was contact between Hughes and McCann as well. If that was your red line then the book should have been thrown at Lundy, the Slaughtneil man tackled the ball and Lundy dropped holding his face. Are you going to start measuring the pressure of contact to determine yellow card v disrepute?

As AZ is continually pointing out (alongside irrefutable video evidence) there is significant amount of, recent, precedent that can be used to dump the disrepute charge on it's head. This is a farcical, agenda driven issue that is fuelled by the bias of certain individuals in the media and in this instance your own bias.

Just to be clear as well, I completely condone Tiernan's actions and the cynical nature of the current Tyrone team is embarrassing. However, the issue needs tackled on a nationwide basis and through the proper channels.

Freudian slip dive?

[screenexile]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0812/720713-eight-week-ban-proposed-for-tiernan-mccann/

Brolly wrote on Twitter: "My view is the use of the specific provision is illegal. The law of statutory interpretation applies to any rule. The lawmaker (Congress) has created a specific offence of simulation with a specific penalty (yellow card).

"Tiernan's only offence, as a matter of law, is simulation, since the lawmaker is presumed to mean what he says. If this were not so, then the disrepute provision could be used to override any offence, perverse though that would be. So, for example, a striking offence could be charged as disrepute.

"The decision is therefore unlawful. It is a manipulation of the law to punish Tiernan more severely than the law allows.

"The central point is that feigning is feigning. The penalty is a yellow card. How can any single act of feigning be worse? The point of the rule is to create certainty for the player & the GAA. If misconduct can override it the rule is worthless."

Brolly concluded: "The case is most certainly headed for the DRA."

And there's Brolly defending the young lad when all you Tyronies think he's against youse... his mother's from Tyrone y'know... "ye bastards!!"