Tyrone V Monaghan AIQF 2015

[Main Street]

Philip Jordan says Monaghan by 2. He's an astute analyst.

Can't see anyone lumping on Tyrone.

I too like Jordan. His perception of the belief of the Monaghan and Tyrone fans appears to be garnered from this thread; would he be having the odd wee look in do ya think? 

Philip firmly shies away from being decisive for this game and sits on the fence.
"the heart still says Tyrone can upset the odds"
"head says Monaghan by two to three points"


Do many ex Tyrone county players suffer from dementia pugilistica, aka punch drunk syndrome?

[omaghjoe]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

Serious question, do people think history plays any part in creating pressure/mind sets for current teams? Are Monaghan under more pressure to deliver this year because they lost in 2013? Or does it have no bearing? Will a loss on Saturday lead to a mindset that the quarter final is their glass ceiling and winning in Croke Park in the biggest games becomes a monkey on their back? Does the final losses of previous years impact on the psyche of current Mayo teams? Do teams freeze when met by the history of Kerry? Would Tyrone have had the mental toughness to win the AI through the back door in 2008 had they not won it in previous years?

Or is it all a pile of bollicks and its all about what happens on the day?

I definitely think that history has a significant impact. I think it's the reason why the likes of Mayo has failed to realise their full potential, and also why teams like Kerry can win games when the opposition is better on paper. I do think there's added pressure on Monaghan to pass the QF stage, but in getting the Tyrone monkey off their back last year the pressure isn't just as big as it might have been.

And if all this stuff wasn't real, there wouldn't be such a need for sports psychologists.

So in that case the heart influencing the head would have a contribution to the outcome?

[Rossfan]

Hope Monaghan win this one and would love it if they could go on then and take Sam.
Unfortunately the latter won't happen.

[Maguire01]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

Serious question, do people think history plays any part in creating pressure/mind sets for current teams? Are Monaghan under more pressure to deliver this year because they lost in 2013? Or does it have no bearing? Will a loss on Saturday lead to a mindset that the quarter final is their glass ceiling and winning in Croke Park in the biggest games becomes a monkey on their back? Does the final losses of previous years impact on the psyche of current Mayo teams? Do teams freeze when met by the history of Kerry? Would Tyrone have had the mental toughness to win the AI through the back door in 2008 had they not won it in previous years?

Or is it all a pile of bollicks and its all about what happens on the day?

I definitely think that history has a significant impact. I think it's the reason why the likes of Mayo has failed to realise their full potential, and also why teams like Kerry can win games when the opposition is better on paper. I do think there's added pressure on Monaghan to pass the QF stage, but in getting the Tyrone monkey off their back last year the pressure isn't just as big as it might have been.

And if all this stuff wasn't real, there wouldn't be such a need for sports psychologists.

So in that case the heart influencing the head would have a contribution to the outcome?

Only psychology is about the head. And it's about the players, not supporters predicting outcomes.

[omaghjoe]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

Serious question, do people think history plays any part in creating pressure/mind sets for current teams? Are Monaghan under more pressure to deliver this year because they lost in 2013? Or does it have no bearing? Will a loss on Saturday lead to a mindset that the quarter final is their glass ceiling and winning in Croke Park in the biggest games becomes a monkey on their back? Does the final losses of previous years impact on the psyche of current Mayo teams? Do teams freeze when met by the history of Kerry? Would Tyrone have had the mental toughness to win the AI through the back door in 2008 had they not won it in previous years?

Or is it all a pile of bollicks and its all about what happens on the day?

I definitely think that history has a significant impact. I think it's the reason why the likes of Mayo has failed to realise their full potential, and also why teams like Kerry can win games when the opposition is better on paper. I do think there's added pressure on Monaghan to pass the QF stage, but in getting the Tyrone monkey off their back last year the pressure isn't just as big as it might have been.

And if all this stuff wasn't real, there wouldn't be such a need for sports psychologists.

So in that case the heart influencing the head would have a contribution to the outcome?

Only psychology is about the head. And it's about the players, not supporters predicting outcomes.

Well not sure anyones actual heart is telling them anything its just a blood pump at the end of the day

Heart in this context is an undefinable (maybe even illogical) core belief in your mind

And aren't we talking about the players?

[Maguire01]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

Serious question, do people think history plays any part in creating pressure/mind sets for current teams? Are Monaghan under more pressure to deliver this year because they lost in 2013? Or does it have no bearing? Will a loss on Saturday lead to a mindset that the quarter final is their glass ceiling and winning in Croke Park in the biggest games becomes a monkey on their back? Does the final losses of previous years impact on the psyche of current Mayo teams? Do teams freeze when met by the history of Kerry? Would Tyrone have had the mental toughness to win the AI through the back door in 2008 had they not won it in previous years?

Or is it all a pile of bollicks and its all about what happens on the day?

I definitely think that history has a significant impact. I think it's the reason why the likes of Mayo has failed to realise their full potential, and also why teams like Kerry can win games when the opposition is better on paper. I do think there's added pressure on Monaghan to pass the QF stage, but in getting the Tyrone monkey off their back last year the pressure isn't just as big as it might have been.

And if all this stuff wasn't real, there wouldn't be such a need for sports psychologists.

So in that case the heart influencing the head would have a contribution to the outcome?

Only psychology is about the head. And it's about the players, not supporters predicting outcomes.

Well not sure anyones actual heart is telling them anything its just a blood pump at the end of the day

Heart in this context is an undefinable (maybe even illogical) core belief in your mind

And aren't we talking about the players?

I had assumed your previous post (about belief you were going to win) was about you, as a supporter, rather than the belief of the team.

[omaghjoe]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

Serious question, do people think history plays any part in creating pressure/mind sets for current teams? Are Monaghan under more pressure to deliver this year because they lost in 2013? Or does it have no bearing? Will a loss on Saturday lead to a mindset that the quarter final is their glass ceiling and winning in Croke Park in the biggest games becomes a monkey on their back? Does the final losses of previous years impact on the psyche of current Mayo teams? Do teams freeze when met by the history of Kerry? Would Tyrone have had the mental toughness to win the AI through the back door in 2008 had they not won it in previous years?

Or is it all a pile of bollicks and its all about what happens on the day?

I definitely think that history has a significant impact. I think it's the reason why the likes of Mayo has failed to realise their full potential, and also why teams like Kerry can win games when the opposition is better on paper. I do think there's added pressure on Monaghan to pass the QF stage, but in getting the Tyrone monkey off their back last year the pressure isn't just as big as it might have been.

And if all this stuff wasn't real, there wouldn't be such a need for sports psychologists.

So in that case the heart influencing the head would have a contribution to the outcome?

Only psychology is about the head. And it's about the players, not supporters predicting outcomes.

Well not sure anyones actual heart is telling them anything its just a blood pump at the end of the day

Heart in this context is an undefinable (maybe even illogical) core belief in your mind

And aren't we talking about the players?

I had assumed your previous post (about belief you were going to win) was about you, as a supporter, rather than the belief of the team.

It was more collective ie the whole county

But in this chain, I was drawing your point about heart into the specifics of this chain, ie the team

So what do ye think? Its gotta be a big influence

[Maguire01]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

Serious question, do people think history plays any part in creating pressure/mind sets for current teams? Are Monaghan under more pressure to deliver this year because they lost in 2013? Or does it have no bearing? Will a loss on Saturday lead to a mindset that the quarter final is their glass ceiling and winning in Croke Park in the biggest games becomes a monkey on their back? Does the final losses of previous years impact on the psyche of current Mayo teams? Do teams freeze when met by the history of Kerry? Would Tyrone have had the mental toughness to win the AI through the back door in 2008 had they not won it in previous years?

Or is it all a pile of bollicks and its all about what happens on the day?

I definitely think that history has a significant impact. I think it's the reason why the likes of Mayo has failed to realise their full potential, and also why teams like Kerry can win games when the opposition is better on paper. I do think there's added pressure on Monaghan to pass the QF stage, but in getting the Tyrone monkey off their back last year the pressure isn't just as big as it might have been.

And if all this stuff wasn't real, there wouldn't be such a need for sports psychologists.

So in that case the heart influencing the head would have a contribution to the outcome?

Only psychology is about the head. And it's about the players, not supporters predicting outcomes.

Well not sure anyones actual heart is telling them anything its just a blood pump at the end of the day

Heart in this context is an undefinable (maybe even illogical) core belief in your mind

And aren't we talking about the players?

I had assumed your previous post (about belief you were going to win) was about you, as a supporter, rather than the belief of the team.

It was more collective ie the whole county

But in this chain, I was drawing your point about heart into the specifics of this chain, ie the team

So what do ye think? Its gotta be a big influence

If you mean belief (of players), then yes, I think it can be massive, both positively and negatively. Belief of supporters..... only to the extent that this influences the team. Of course underneath it all you need to he able to play!

[Main Street]

Is there anybody (head not heart) in the pundit world who's tipping Tyrone to win?
It's really, really nice to have all this faith and positivity generated towards Monaghan in their honest endeavour to reach the semi final for the first time in decades, fighting the good fight.

[tyroneboi]

Mind games . . .

http://tyronetribulations.com/2015/08/06/malachy-orourkes-bin-not-collected-in-ballygawley-after-latest-wave-of-pre-match-intimidation/

[ONeill]

same team named?

[BennyHarp]

Is there anybody (head not heart) in the pundit world who's tipping Tyrone to win?
It's really, really nice to have all this faith and positivity generated towards Monaghan in their honest endeavour to reach the semi final for the first time in decades, fighting the good fight.

Means nothing if you don't win though!

[Rois]

McCarron back in, otherwise no other changes.

[Redhand Santa]

McCarron in for Brennan only change. Lee Brennan back on bench, think it's mcshane who's missed out.

[Maguire01]

Is there anybody (head not heart) in the pundit world who's tipping Tyrone to win?
It's really, really nice to have all this faith and positivity generated towards Monaghan in their honest endeavour to reach the semi final for the first time in decades, fighting the good fight.

Means nothing if you don't win though!

Absolutely. No room for moral victories here.