Fermanagh v Dublin AIQ/Final

[easytiger95]

Very interesting comparison demographically - Dublin has population of 1.267 million - Fermanagh has 61,000.

Let's say half of Dublin is uninterested in GAA (soccer, rugby playing areas far more delineated in the capital than most other places) so the Dubs have a playing population of 630k or so.

Let's say half of Fermanagh uninterested in GAA (for obvious historical reasons) so the Farney men have a playing population of 30k or so.

Per capita funding works out at €2.38 per head in Dublin.

Per capita funding works out at €1.40 per head in Fermanagh.

However, Dublin is a dual county - so roughly half that funding goes towards the hurling (probably more - some of the better club men here will tell me about the efforts going in at grassroots - and besides with helmets and hurls, it is intrinsically more expensive than football).

Taking that expenditure in, per capita funding for football in Dublin works out at 1.19 a head.

Also take into account, whilst Fermanagh is already at the limit of their indigenous football playing population (let's face it, we're not making much of an impact in the Loyalist community) whilst Dublin has approx 600k who have no religious or political objection to playing GAA, but there is a class and perception barrier, which Croke Park and Central council are determined to breach.

So, throw back in that 600k, and spending for Dublin football (allowing for hurling evangelism in the aforementioned 600k) is now down about 59 cents a head.

Translation - no wonder those Fermanagh Fat cats were smiling after the game - using 50 euro notes to light their cigars, getting Kanye West to do the sing song on the bus home, and getting the good exchange rate whilst down south?

They are raking it in.

(Lies, damned lies and statistics)

[armaghniac]

Very interesting comparison demographically - Dublin has population of 1.267 million - Fermanagh has 61,000.

Let's say half of Dublin is uninterested in GAA (soccer, rugby playing areas far more delineated in the capital than most other places) so the Dubs have a playing population of 630k or so.

Let's say half of Fermanagh uninterested in GAA (for obvious historical reasons) so the Farney men have a playing population of 30k or so.

Per capita funding works out at €2.38 per head in Dublin.

Per capita funding works out at €1.40 per head in Fermanagh.

However, Dublin is a dual county - so roughly half that funding goes towards the hurling (probably more - some of the better club men here will tell me about the efforts going in at grassroots - and besides with helmets and hurls, it is intrinsically more expensive than football).

Taking that expenditure in, per capita funding for football in Dublin works out at 1.19 a head.

Also take into account, whilst Fermanagh is already at the limit of their indigenous football playing population (let's face it, we're not making much of an impact in the Loyalist community) whilst Dublin has approx 600k who have no religious or political objection to playing GAA, but there is a class and perception barrier, which Croke Park and Central council are determined to breach.

So, throw back in that 600k, and spending for Dublin football (allowing for hurling evangelism in the aforementioned 600k) is now down about 59 cents a head.

Translation - no wonder those Fermanagh Fat cats were smiling after the game - using 50 euro notes to light their cigars, getting Kanye West to do the sing song on the bus home, and getting the good exchange rate whilst down south?

They are raking it in.

(Lies, damned lies and statistics)

Lies, damned lies and statistics, indeed. Any attempt to equate people who are not interested in GAA with people whose political objective is to supress the GAA and anything Irish is outright dishonest straight off.

And talking about Fermanagh people getting a good exchange rate about describes the strength of your argument. As for the journey home, the Dubs have a neglible journey to their game so they don't need a good exchange rate to fund it.

But for the bigger point, the issue is not whether the GAA should spend money promoting our games among the kids of housing estates, they absolutely should do this and Dublin may well get much of this. The issue is whether the pattern of spending should be allowed distort the intercounty championship by giving more to the those who already have.

[easytiger95]

Jesus, I actually put the phrase "Lies, damned lies and statistics" at the end of my post. It is called IRONY. The point being that my points about spend per capita are just as dishonest as Leo Turley's charges about financial doping.

i am available for weddings and bar mizvahs.....

[easytiger95]

[quote Any attempt to equate people who are not interested in GAA with people whose political objective is to supress the GAA and anything Irish is outright dishonest straight off. ][/quote]

Oh and BTW for pedantry's sake, i didn't equate the two - I actually compared them by saying half Fermanagh's population would never be interested in GAA for social/religious/historic reasons whilst half of Dublin's population may not be interested now, but could well be enticed as they didn't have the same aforementioned factors at play.

But please, let's not let basic literacy get in the way of moral outrage at the dirty, doping Dubs.

[armaghniac]

Jesus, I actually put the phrase "Lies, damned lies and statistics" at the end of my post. It is called IRONY. The point being that my points about spend per capita are just as dishonest as Leo Turley's charges about financial doping.

In fairness, you do appreciate the difference between Loyalists and those not interested in the later part of your earlier post, so I was a but strong there.

As I said, spending to promote the GAA is fine and not a problem. But it is the unequal effect on county teams of the success of this that is at issue.

[The Hill is Blue]

Jesus, I actually put the phrase "Lies, damned lies and statistics" at the end of my post. It is called IRONY. The point being that my points about spend per capita are just as dishonest as Leo Turley's charges about financial doping.

i am available for weddings and bar mizvahs.....

This time last year we had three or four threads running simultaneously each of which had been polluted by this rant. Strangely, after Dublin lost to Donegal we heard no more about it. There was no postmortem aimed at discovering why Kerry and Donegal stayed in the championship longer than Dublin.

[haranguerer]

Let's say half of Fermanagh uninterested in GAA (for obvious historical reasons) so the Farney men have a playing population of 30k or so.

The Farney men are Monaghan ya eejit...

[Johnnybegood]

In 10 years time if theres a more talented group of footballers in Fermanagh than in Dublin - I would want that teams talent to be fit to achieve more than Dublin.  We are not modelled on the premier league with the haves and the have nots. Our goal should be that every kid in Ireland that wants to play GAA has the opportunity to do so at a relatively similar level.  That could take a little time to get to. 

when you say every kid in Ireland do you include Dublin kids ?

[easytiger95]

Let's say half of Fermanagh uninterested in GAA (for obvious historical reasons) so the Farney men have a playing population of 30k or so.

The Farney men are Monaghan ya eejit...

Sorry Haranguerer!! I think i was put in mind of Farney man's unique brand of logic when reading some of Teo's posts. Apologies to all in the Lake county.

[INDIANA]

Jesus, I actually put the phrase "Lies, damned lies and statistics" at the end of my post. It is called IRONY. The point being that my points about spend per capita are just as dishonest as Leo Turley's charges about financial doping.

i am available for weddings and bar mizvahs.....

This time last year we had three or four threads running simultaneously each of which had been polluted by this rant. Strangely, after Dublin lost to Donegal we heard no more about it. There was no postmortem aimed at discovering why Kerry and Donegal stayed in the championship longer than Dublin.

I've always been convinced that most of Portrane's inmates are from Laois and the North and they let lads like Turley ramble on here as a way of getting through the day.

[INDIANA]

Very interesting comparison demographically - Dublin has population of 1.267 million - Fermanagh has 61,000.

Let's say half of Dublin is uninterested in GAA (soccer, rugby playing areas far more delineated in the capital than most other places) so the Dubs have a playing population of 630k or so.

Let's say half of Fermanagh uninterested in GAA (for obvious historical reasons) so the Farney men have a playing population of 30k or so.

Per capita funding works out at €2.38 per head in Dublin.

Per capita funding works out at €1.40 per head in Fermanagh.

However, Dublin is a dual county - so roughly half that funding goes towards the hurling (probably more - some of the better club men here will tell me about the efforts going in at grassroots - and besides with helmets and hurls, it is intrinsically more expensive than football).

Taking that expenditure in, per capita funding for football in Dublin works out at 1.19 a head.

Also take into account, whilst Fermanagh is already at the limit of their indigenous football playing population (let's face it, we're not making much of an impact in the Loyalist community) whilst Dublin has approx 600k who have no religious or political objection to playing GAA, but there is a class and perception barrier, which Croke Park and Central council are determined to breach.

So, throw back in that 600k, and spending for Dublin football (allowing for hurling evangelism in the aforementioned 600k) is now down about 59 cents a head.

Translation - no wonder those Fermanagh Fat cats were smiling after the game - using 50 euro notes to light their cigars, getting Kanye West to do the sing song on the bus home, and getting the good exchange rate whilst down south?

They are raking it in.

(Lies, damned lies and statistics)

Again that's deeply flawed analysis. And I'll tell you why. Some of the most densely populated areas like Tallaght, Clondalkin and Lucan have very little in the way of any GAA playing clubs. So of your 1M people- the GAA population totals no more then 300k. And I'd say not even that.

We've three clubs in Tallaght- one of them St Marks is on its knees. St Annes is the same size it was 20 years ago. Thomas Davis again a mid ranking club . Soccer is king in Tallaght. Round Towers Clondalkin are the only GAA club really in that region- again in a soccer dominated region. Lucan Sarsfield again the only club in that region.

What you have is a glut of clubs on the North side in the one region all taking players off each other and a sparsely populated GAA centre on the Southside all built around 4/5 super-clubs. But the southside is a deeply populated region.

The penetration of GAA in Dublin the way you're trying to analyse it is completely wrong. Because if it was as good as your analysis - we would win it every year. Absolutely guaranteed..

[AZOffaly]

But lads, when ye talk of clubs in Dublin, it's a bit of a red herring. I've done a bit of 'guest' coaching up there, and in places like Lucan Sarsfields, the numbers are just staggering. I mean it's fine to say there's only 1 club in Lucan, but when that club has 160 u8s or whatever, that's the equivalent of about 8 clubs in 'da country'.

In Football alone, there are 12 division of Adult Mens football. Divisions 1 through Divisions 11 North and South. There seems to be about 16 teams in each division, but I only checked Divisions 1,2,3 and 11South. That makes for approximately 192 Adult football teams competing in leagues. That's a huge number no matter how many 'clubs' are actually there. I think there are more clubs in Cork than in Dublin but in terms of football there are only 4 divisions in the Cork Senior Adult Leagues, with 12 teams in each, and 3 Junior Football Leagues with 8,8 and 5 teams respectively. So in a county with far more clubs, nominally, there are actually 69 Adult Football Teams, 120+ less than Dublin.

Dublins recent dominance isn't just about money, or population, but money well spent on coaching to encourage and maximise the potential of this huge pick is certainly a factor, and it's foolish to suggest it isn't.

[haranguerer]

Let's say half of Fermanagh uninterested in GAA (for obvious historical reasons) so the Farney men have a playing population of 30k or so.

The Farney men are Monaghan ya eejit...

Sorry Haranguerer!! I think i was put in mind of Farney man's unique brand of logic when reading some of Teo's posts. Apologies to all in the Lake county.

Ah holy god  - you're surely taking the piss? Thats westmeath

[AZOffaly]

Erne men, Erne County or the Good Losers

[The Aristocrat]

But lads, when ye talk of clubs in Dublin, it's a bit of a red herring. I've done a bit of 'guest' coaching up there, and in places like Lucan Sarsfields, the numbers are just staggering. I mean it's fine to say there's only 1 club in Lucan, but when that club has 160 u8s or whatever, that's the equivalent of about 8 clubs in 'da country'.

In Football alone, there are 12 division of Adult Mens football. Divisions 1 through Divisions 11 North and South. There seems to be about 16 teams in each division, but I only checked Divisions 1,2,3 and 11South. That makes for approximately 192 Adult football teams competing in leagues. That's a huge number no matter how many 'clubs' are actually there. I think there are more clubs in Cork than in Dublin but in terms of football there are only 4 divisions in the Cork Senior Adult Leagues, with 12 teams in each, and 3 Junior Football Leagues with 8,8 and 5 teams respectively. So in a county with far more clubs, nominally, there are actually 69 Adult Football Teams, 120+ less than Dublin.

Dublins recent dominance isn't just about money, or population, but money well spent on coaching to encourage and maximise the potential of this huge pick is certainly a factor, and it's foolish to suggest it isn't.

The Dublin senior footballers playing population is Adult leagues 1-3 and that's it, anything else is irrelevant.

Also, the majority of those other teams are clubs 2nd, 3rd, 4th , 5th teams. Dublin teams don't win the club all Ireland every year in both codes either.