Proposals to change the All Ireland Football structures

[Zulu]

I don't think it's true to say 25 odd teams have the provincial championships as a big motivation, yes it's a more realistic target for many but history proves few of any can genuinely win them.

There were 5000 at the Derry Tyrone McKenna cup game too but that shouldn't mean we can't consider that competitions value to our overall season.

Supporters will go to games when they know there are two teams at full strength really going for it.

But again, I'll ask the question, why can't we at least trial an IC U21 championship without the provincial championships? At least if we see a competition under a different format we can make some informed decisions. If we did that then we could see what the players and managements think of it, how supporters embrace it and if it is fairer to all teams.

[armaghniac]

I don't think it's true to say 25 odd teams have the provincial championships as a big motivation, yes it's a more realistic target for many but history proves few of any can genuinely win them.

Everyone cannot win every year, but since 1990 7 Ulster counties have won and another was within one kick of the ball of doing so.

]But again, I'll ask the question, why can't we at least trial an IC U21 championship without the provincial championships? At least if we see a competition under a different format we can make some informed decisions. If we did that then we could see what the players and managements think of it, how supporters embrace it and if it is fairer to all teams.

Not a bad idea. An U21 format which involved more games might aggravate other concerns however.

[Catch and Kick]

Counties aren't foolish. They know that they have a far better relationship with their Provincial Council than with Croke Park. Far better chance of the Councils responding to counties than Commercial Park. That's a big factor. The Provincial Councils are more connected to grass roots.

[Esmarelda]

Just reading this on RTE this morning and I'm wondering if I/we misunderstand the proposal or whether RTE have it wrong.

The link is below but the bit I'm referring to is "And while the proposed new B Championship offers a prize of automatic entry to the football qualifiers for the winner, will that carrot be enough to ensure competitive fare and will sides be able to keep their players interested after a provincial exit?"

Are they saying that the winner of the B Championship re-enters the A championship in the current year? If so then I think it makes the proposal a lot more attractive.

[AZOffaly]

I wonder is it just getting close to the time where we bite the bullet, and separate the club and county scenes completely. Make the County managers pick a squad of 30 at the start of the year, maybe in February, and for the rest of the year, the County plays league and championship through to August/September, and the Clubs just play away in their own League and Championship in parallel. Effectively run the club scene like a Minor League, with controls as to how injured county players are replaced during the year.

I realise this is a bollix for the Clubs, especially if you have 3 or 4 county men, but you rarely see these lads during the year anyway, and maybe a coach/manager would love to be able to work at club level with a consistent squad of players and a guaranteed calendar which ran through the good months of the year. You could even try play the All Ireland Club championship in October.

[orangeman]

I wonder is it just getting close to the time where we bite the bullet, and separate the club and county scenes completely. Make the County managers pick a squad of 30 at the start of the year, maybe in February, and for the rest of the year, the County plays league and championship through to August/September, and the Clubs just play away in their own League and Championship in parallel. Effectively run the club scene like a Minor League, with controls as to how injured county players are replaced during the year.

I realise this is a bollix for the Clubs, especially if you have 3 or 4 county men, but you rarely see these lads during the year anyway, and maybe a coach/manager would love to be able to work at club level with a consistent squad of players and a guaranteed calendar which ran through the good months of the year. You could even try play the All Ireland Club championship in October.

AZ

Perhaps this is part of the " end game " that you talked about earlier ?. Where there is separation and county players can't play league but could play championship later in the year. That in my opinion would require some form of contract / enhanced payment. I wouldn't rule it out. And as you say there are advantages but only if you don't have 3/4 men from the club on that 30.

[AZOffaly]

I think it may be orangeman. I certainly think the GPA feel that divide exists anyway, hence their own existence. I'm not trying to suggest they don't care about their clubs, I know most of them are probably great club men when they can be with the club. But it does feel like a logical extension.

If you split the club and county entirely, then you have far greater latitude (says Ger Canning) to modify Championship structures in both levels to give the regular games, fixed calendar, competitive layers, etc etc.

If we don't do something about the demands on players, then I think this will be proposed at some stage.

[BennyHarp]

I wonder is it just getting close to the time where we bite the bullet, and separate the club and county scenes completely. Make the County managers pick a squad of 30 at the start of the year, maybe in February, and for the rest of the year, the County plays league and championship through to August/September, and the Clubs just play away in their own League and Championship in parallel. Effectively run the club scene like a Minor League, with controls as to how injured county players are replaced during the year.

I realise this is a bollix for the Clubs, especially if you have 3 or 4 county men, but you rarely see these lads during the year anyway, and maybe a coach/manager would love to be able to work at club level with a consistent squad of players and a guaranteed calendar which ran through the good months of the year. You could even try play the All Ireland Club championship in October.

AZ

Perhaps this is part of the " end game " that you talked about earlier ?. Where there is separation and county players can't play league but could play championship later in the year. That in my opinion would require some form of contract / enhanced payment. I wouldn't rule it out. And as you say there are advantages but only if you don't have 3/4 men from the club on that 30.

I agree, this isn't a route you can go down in an amateur organisation - you can't bar someone from playing for the club they grew up play for just because they have made it on to the county squad. I think that would not only harm the club scene but I think an increasing number of players might just choose to play with their clubs and not bother with the county.

[AZOffaly]

I wonder is it just getting close to the time where we bite the bullet, and separate the club and county scenes completely. Make the County managers pick a squad of 30 at the start of the year, maybe in February, and for the rest of the year, the County plays league and championship through to August/September, and the Clubs just play away in their own League and Championship in parallel. Effectively run the club scene like a Minor League, with controls as to how injured county players are replaced during the year.

I realise this is a bollix for the Clubs, especially if you have 3 or 4 county men, but you rarely see these lads during the year anyway, and maybe a coach/manager would love to be able to work at club level with a consistent squad of players and a guaranteed calendar which ran through the good months of the year. You could even try play the All Ireland Club championship in October.

AZ

Perhaps this is part of the " end game " that you talked about earlier ?. Where there is separation and county players can't play league but could play championship later in the year. That in my opinion would require some form of contract / enhanced payment. I wouldn't rule it out. And as you say there are advantages but only if you don't have 3/4 men from the club on that 30.

I agree, this isn't a route you can go down in an amateur organisation - you can't bar someone from playing for the club they grew up play for just because they have made it on to the county squad. I think that would not only harm the club scene but I think an increasing number of players might just choose to play with their clubs and not bother with the county.

That may well happen alright, which obviously wouldn't harm the club team. It might just find its own level after a while though.

Don't get me wrong, this is not something I'd like to see. I think club players should be able to play with the county, and their clubs. But if the demands are so excessive, then something radical is going to have to happen. Maybe it will be something like what heffo suggests on the GPA thread, but if it's not something like that, it will have to be something like this, or on these lines.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Do the Players Union still have a representative on Central Council, and if they do, where was their delegate last Saturday?

[Catch and Kick]

There are a number of realities:
The Inter county needs to be scaled back, not up.
The GPA exists only to promote the interests of inter county players and their best interest would be more high profile games leading to professional football. Not only os it not stated but they now claim the exact opposite; however their Championship proposal was completely at odds with he club game.
The Club player and the Club itself is penalised in the present competition structure.
The provincial championships are going no where.
The provincial councils, for whatever failings they have (perceived or real) are more in touch with grass roots than Corporate Park is or ever will be.

Solution
There is no perfect format.
The ideal format recognises the importance of the club.
The ideal format provides a fair structure that recognises the status of the counties; rewards success and provides realistic incentive to counties for improvement.
Provides sufficient attractive games to whet the appetite of the public.
Simple structures are better than convoluted qualifier rounds etc etc

The Carla proposal ticked a lot of those boxes except it came from a basement county and wasn't given sufficient airing in the media and wasn't taken seriously because it came from the bottom of Div 4.
It had a defined programme of games with definitive dates from round 1 to the All Ireland Final; it retains the provincials; it seeds teams to provide realistic opposition yet room to progress; a secondary competition could be run among the 16 defeated teams from rounds 1 and 2 (not confined to Div 4, entry based on results).
Far ahead of that revised Tommy Cooper Cup.....worth a trial period of a couple of seasons...

[Rossfan]

How many times has that lad contradicted himself.
And of course there's the standard hysteria about the GPA and paying players thrown in

[Rossfan]

Do the Players Union still have a representative on Central Council, and if they do, where was their delegate last Saturday?

How many people on CC?
Does 1 GPA delegate's vote exceed all the others?
The GPA hysteria is getting worse by the hour!!

[From the Bunker]

Like all other sporting codes such as Rugby, Soccer etc, Gaelic football has been entering into a new era of MONEY. Money has changed the game of Soccer in England, grass root football is diminishing. Most of the clubs have imported players from Europe, Africa, South America and Asia. The player pool to buy from is unlimited. Rugby although new to the Money game, is already picking up pace. New franchised clubs have been created in Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Players are coming also from abroad, and the local smaller clubs are diminishing.

Money has changed the GAA and will continue to change it. There is nothing we can do. It's a machine and it willl make the Big Bigger and make the small smaller or just leave them in a static position. The survival in the future of the smaller counties will be amalgamation and Franchised clubs. There is no other solution if some one from these counties want to see their team competitive and worth following. We have gone to far down the Money road to start taking money off Dublin and the other Big guns.

[armaghniac]

Like all other sporting codes such as Rugby, Soccer etc, Gaelic football has been entering into a new era of MONEY. Money has changed the game of Soccer in England, grass root football is diminishing. Most of the clubs have imported players from Europe, Africa, South America and Asia. The player pool to buy from is unlimited. Rugby although new to the Money game, is already picking up pace. New franchised clubs have been created in Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Players are coming also from abroad, and the local smaller clubs are diminishing.

Money has changed the GAA and will continue to change it. There is nothing we can do. It's a machine and it willl make the Big Bigger and make the small smaller or just leave them in a static position. The survival in the future of the smaller counties will be amalgamation and Franchised clubs. There is no other solution if some one from these counties want to see their team competitive and worth following. We have gone to far down the Money road to start taking money off Dublin and the other Big guns.

The GAA is owned by its members, perhaps the tide cannot be completely stopped but more can be done. There is a difference between the likes of Dublin who have an unequal allocation of resources and the likes of Kilkenny whose success may have attracted some money but is not based on that money.