A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[Brendan]

How much orchestrating are loyalist paramilitaries doing like happens every time there's trouble in their areas?

[Norm-Peterson]

I recall there used to be UVF graffiti in the toilets when I worked in Ballymena. I also remember going to the toilet in The Range and UVF writing in there too. Many of the immigrants aren't good people but they aren't any worse than the locals.

[tiempo]

I recall there used to be UVF graffiti in the toilets when I worked in Ballymena. I also remember going to the toilet in The Range and UVF writing in there too. Many of the immigrants aren't good people but they aren't any worse than the locals.

The lads and lassies away on J1s as well, scum

[Brendan]

Varadkar speaking well on Irish Unity on BBC The View, are we seeing his real opinions now he doesn't have the Fine Gael chains or is it some sort of new paid role?

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Varadkar speaking well on Irish Unity on BBC The View, are we seeing his real opinions now he doesn't have the Fine Gael chains or is it some sort of new paid role?

Glad to see Chris Donnelly calling out Shirlow on his nonsensical figures on the programme. He constantly says there is no proof of any move to a UI by saying the nationalist vote hasn't changed in 30 yrs. He is factually correct about the nationality % but to ignore the massive drop in the unionist vote over the same time is just mind boggling by an academic. Yet he keeps coming out with it and never ever gets challenged. All alliance and green voters in his world are basically Unionist a UI vote for him can only happen when basically SF and SDLP hits 51% because everyone else conveniently seems to be unionist that would include pbp voters and nationalist independents in his weird world

[Rossfan]

Can someone who has access post
the full text??

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/were-not-wanted-by-britain-dup-founding-member-wallace-thompson-on-paisley-protestantism-and-what-made-him-change-his-mind-on-a-new-ireland-IBNT4MVJYBFVXBDLOMWQAF6BMY/

[weareros]

Can someone who has access post
the full text??

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/were-not-wanted-by-britain-dup-founding-member-wallace-thompson-on-paisley-protestantism-and-what-made-him-change-his-mind-on-a-new-ireland-IBNT4MVJYBFVXBDLOMWQAF6BMY/

'We're not wanted by Britain': DUP founding member Wallace Thompson on Paisley, Protestantism and what made him change his mind on a 'new Ireland'

Wallace Thompson admits that as a 15-year-old, he "rejoiced in the police action in nationalists being dealt with" at the infamous October 1968 civil rights march in Derry.

By 1974, at Queen's University, he was "an ardent supporter" of the Ulster Workers Council strike along with fellow students Jim Allister, Sammy Wilson and Jim Wells, believing the very existence of his Protestant heritage was under threat.

Thompson's "fascination with Ian Paisley" in the late 1960s led to a long involvement with the DUP, including as a special advisor to Nigel Dodds while a minister in Stormont as well as working closely with Peter Robinson and other leading figures at the centre of the party.

But he now talks openly about the inevitability of a 'new Ireland', says he thinks Protestants could have "greater clout" in it, and adds: "The whole landscape has changed. We're not wanted by Britain; we're strangers in our own land.

Wallace Thompson: 'I'm opposed to Catholicism, but sectarianism is motivated by hatred'

"Why do we have to be demeaned like this rather than saying look, hold on, I'm an Irish Protestant and I've as much right to be respected as anybody else."

He feels "more and more Irish and less British these days", although he's first and foremost a Protestant and believes he could retain his British identity while not living in the United Kingdom.

His belief that unionists should engage in the conversation about possible change has brought the ire of some of his erstwhile colleagues, who've called him a Lundy.

"I've called people a Lundy in the past," he smiles.

"One person suggested my autobiography should be called 'The journey of a demented turncoat'. People thought I'd taken leave of my senses, it must be old age."

He adds: "A kinder interpretation was that this man has lost his marbles, as he's got older he's forgotten.

"I haven't forgotten anything about what happened before, that I once held different views."

Indeed, throughout our interview, Wallace Thompson shows good humour, grace, openness and a sharp intellect in articulating his changed position.

Before, it was a case of politics and spiritual matters being intertwined.

"It's a reflection not only of my mindset but of those particular times when your Protestant faith and your unionism were bound up because they were two sides of the same coin. Protestantism was the raison d'etre behind separating off from the rest of Ireland.

"It was a package and Ian Paisley encapsulated both elements of that cause," says Thompson, who adds: "In those days the heat was on, you were under threat. The world was crashing down around us."

Wallace Thompson with Ian Paisley
Wallace Thompson with Ian Paisley
With the 1960s moving towards ecumenism, the onset of the Troubles brought further fear for people like him that Protestantism was under attack.

"Ian Paisley's utterances seemed to reflect that worry, that panic."

And yet when Thompson got to know the outwardly "robust and rumbustious" Paisley, the man he knew was "full of humour, full of personality, there was a very considerable warmth".

Paisleyism was then viewed as virtually a cult by establishment unionism.

"We were seen as weird, awkward, narrow-minded. The mavericks, the outsiders. But we rejoiced in it. Being younger, we all thought it was great craic.

"My Granda Thompson, a working-class man from Ballymoney who wore a wee flat cap, was an anti-establishment figure but I remember him saying to me, 'Son, don't follow Paisley'."

From those early days, the time eventually came for the Paisley the maverick to become the establishment figure when he entered power-sharing with Sinn Féin, the party he once promised to smash, and the feeling among many was that he cynically went into government for the personal glory of being First Minister.

The DUP and Sinn Féin became the leading parties in unionism and nationalism in the 2003 Assembly election, allowing Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness to lead a power-sharing executive four years later
Ian Paisley agreed to share power with Martin McGuinness and Sinn Féin, with the pair becoming known as the 'chuckle brothers'

Thompson says: "In fairness to the man, he may have had his own desires to be remembered in that way. But I think there was a genuineness about it that came across in his work with Martin McGuinness. It wasn't all for the optics, it was substantial.

"I just wish it had come five or 10 years earlier when he was more 'at himself', as we say. Like they said about William Gladstone, he was an old man in a hurry, but I wouldn't criticise him for that."

Despite warnings of "a battle a day" with Sinn Féin, Thompson says he never saw that and while it was a big moment having to work face to face with people who had served prison sentences, he found it "enriching".

But from his early "no surrender" days, what was the catalyst for the huge change in Wallace Thompson's stance on a united or 'new' Ireland?

"Boris Johnson's nonsense on the Irish Sea border," he says firmly.

The then prime minister famously assured the DUP conference he would stand by the union, before abandoning the party to strike a deal with the EU.

Boris Johnson was guest speaker at the DUP annual conference in 2018. Picture by Arthur Allison/Pacemaker Press

Boris Johnson was guest speaker at the DUP annual conference in 2018. Picture by Arthur Allison/Pacemaker Press

"Brexit had been a big factor. Friends in Fermanagh were more aware of the complexities and voted to remain, but we were foolish in believing we could achieve a total break easily. We began to realise that it was not that simple, but then came Boris's betrayal.

"I began to think of the past and it was betrayal after betrayal. Every time unionism was on the back foot, we lost ground by crying 'not an inch'.

"Down through the hundred years of Northern Ireland we kept losing ground. The 1974 strike and Sunningdale, with the violence being so severe in 1972 and ′73, all seemed a bridge too far in the heat of battle.

"We said we can't compromise, but perhaps that was an opportunity that should have been taken. Then we opposed the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985 and lost seats, and we opposed the 1998 Belfast Agreement. Then had to accept the principles of it were going to be the foundation of whatever we did," he says.

"Every time we said no surrender, not an inch, while losing inches. The final straw was this nonsense from Boris.

Former DUP special adviser, Wallace Thompson speaks to The Irish News.
PIC COLM LENAGHAN
Wallace Thompson in the grounds of Parliament Buildings, Stormont. PICTURE: COLM LENAGHAN

"Plus," he says, "the changing face of religion within the British Isles.

"The Republic is no longer a Catholic country. Britain has lost its Protestantism, and the empire, which our forefathers fought for, is gone. It was said that Protestantism was the cement that held the empire together. That has crumbled and the whole thing has fallen apart.

"The whole landscape has changed. We're not wanted by Britain. The illustration is the unwanted child in the house. If you moved into a different house, there would be those who would question our being there and want to put us in our place. But I think the majority would welcome us.

"I've been brought up to be British but I'm feeling more and more Irish in one sense. I'm an Ulsterman, an Irishman and a British citizen and I'm not quite sure at the sequence. First and foremost, I'm a Protestant, that's the main one."

He said unionists in a Dáil chamber would make up a much bigger minority than at Westminster where "you're hardly even noticed".

"I wonder would we not have more direct clout in an Irish set-up, however it's done, whether it's devolved through the regions or unitary state.

"People say that's all very well but once they get you in there's no guarantee, you could end up in very difficult territory.

"I've moved considerably on this. I'm at a tipping point."

So, it's time for a conversation, and he feels that refusing to talk about change is "unionism all over. Events may overtake them and it just comes in on them like a tsunami".

"There's an inevitability that some sort of constitutional change will take place. When, I don't know. It is some way down the road, but we need to discuss it, we need to prepare for the possibility of it. We need to talk within our own groups," he says, referring to within unionism and within nationalism.

IRELANDS FUTURE
Wallace Thompson with Leo Varadkar and Gerry Adams at an Ireland's Future event at the SSE Arena in Belfast. PICTURE: Mal McCann

He accepts that the word "inevitable" caused some difficulty, but there is a trajectory of travel and getting involved in the discussion is a way of changing the destination.

"I don't see that conversation taking place. The southern government is not showing much direct interest beyond broad principles. The only ones pushing for it are Sinn Féin and we don't know what version of change they want to achieve. Other nationalists and unionists need to be involved.

"There needs to be internal discussion and then a reaching out. We need to achieve some form of reconciliation within Northern Ireland first," says Thompon, who says a lot of people tell him privately that he's right in what he's saying, including "surprising sources at times".

"It's a challenge but a positive challenge. There has to be a discussion at all these various levels."

Throughout his political and religious life, it's been clear that Wallace Thompson has never been afraid to stand out from the crowd if he believes in a principle.

He adds: "It's been a very challenging thing for me, and yet I'm actually quite enjoying the journey."

[johnnycool]

Varadkar speaking well on Irish Unity on BBC The View, are we seeing his real opinions now he doesn't have the Fine Gael chains or is it some sort of new paid role?

Glad to see Chris Donnelly calling out Shirlow on his nonsensical figures on the programme. He constantly says there is no proof of any move to a UI by saying the nationalist vote hasn't changed in 30 yrs. He is factually correct about the nationality % but to ignore the massive drop in the unionist vote over the same time is just mind boggling by an academic. Yet he keeps coming out with it and never ever gets challenged. All alliance and green voters in his world are basically Unionist a UI vote for him can only happen when basically SF and SDLP hits 51% because everyone else conveniently seems to be unionist that would include pbp voters and nationalist independents in his weird world

In my experiences Alliance are strong in Unionist wards, constituencies with a growing nationalist vote, but with no chances of electing a Shinner or Stoop.

There may be outliers in that, but it's certainly the case in Strangford, North Down and possibly East Belfast.

From the 2022 assembly elections.

[marty34]

Yeah, there's definately a slowing up in the unionist vote. Very noticeable.

And as that bloc is older, it will be more noticeable as time slips by.

I always liken it to that science experiment at school where you keep putting the colour liquid into water and nothing happens for a long time, then with one drop, things change dramatically.

That's demographics. At least a re-united Ireland is being talked about and discussed. Slowly but it is. There's more debate and discussion around it.

We can see with the Shared Island scheme that infrastructure projects are moving along nicely e.g. bridge at Narrow Water, Casement Pk  and  tourism etc.

It's all going one way.

[tiempo]

Yeah, there's definately a slowing up in the unionist vote. Very noticeable.

And as that bloc is older, it will be more noticeable as time slips by.

I always liken it to that science experiment at school where you keep putting the colour liquid into water and nothing happens for a long time, then with one drop, things change dramatically.

That's demographics. At least a re-united Ireland is being talked about and discussed. Slowly but it is. There's more debate and discussion around it.

We can see with the Shared Island scheme that infrastructure projects are moving along nicely e.g. bridge at Narrow Water, Casement Pk  and  tourism etc.

It's all going one way.

Very apt that in titration thats referred to an end point - the Union is in the winter of its years

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Varadkar speaking well on Irish Unity on BBC The View, are we seeing his real opinions now he doesn't have the Fine Gael chains or is it some sort of new paid role?

Glad to see Chris Donnelly calling out Shirlow on his nonsensical figures on the programme. He constantly says there is no proof of any move to a UI by saying the nationalist vote hasn't changed in 30 yrs. He is factually correct about the nationality % but to ignore the massive drop in the unionist vote over the same time is just mind boggling by an academic. Yet he keeps coming out with it and never ever gets challenged. All alliance and green voters in his world are basically Unionist a UI vote for him can only happen when basically SF and SDLP hits 51% because everyone else conveniently seems to be unionist that would include pbp voters and nationalist independents in his weird world

In my experiences Alliance are strong in Unionist wards, constituencies with a growing nationalist vote, but with no chances of electing a Shinner or Stoop.

There may be outliers in that, but it's certainly the case in Strangford, North Down and possibly East Belfast.

From the 2022 assembly elections.

Alliance transfer at a much greater rate to nationalist parties than Unionist parties around 2-1 and it's been like that for 20 years so for analysts to be trying to shove all their voters into the unionist camp is quite frankly absurd

[SaffronSports]

Varadkar speaking well on Irish Unity on BBC The View, are we seeing his real opinions now he doesn't have the Fine Gael chains or is it some sort of new paid role?

Glad to see Chris Donnelly calling out Shirlow on his nonsensical figures on the programme. He constantly says there is no proof of any move to a UI by saying the nationalist vote hasn't changed in 30 yrs. He is factually correct about the nationality % but to ignore the massive drop in the unionist vote over the same time is just mind boggling by an academic. Yet he keeps coming out with it and never ever gets challenged. All alliance and green voters in his world are basically Unionist a UI vote for him can only happen when basically SF and SDLP hits 51% because everyone else conveniently seems to be unionist that would include pbp voters and nationalist independents in his weird world

In my experiences Alliance are strong in Unionist wards, constituencies with a growing nationalist vote, but with no chances of electing a Shinner or Stoop.

There may be outliers in that, but it's certainly the case in Strangford, North Down and possibly East Belfast.

From the 2022 assembly elections.

Alliance transfer at a much greater rate to nationalist parties than Unionist parties around 2-1 and it's been like that for 20 years so for analysts to be trying to shove all their voters into the unionist camp is quite frankly absurd

My parents always voted for Sean Neeson (AP) who passed away last week as there was no nationalist candidate in East Antrim for a long time.

[Feckitt]

The argument by Peter Shirlow is that a Unity referendum is not on the cards because the Nationalist vote is the same now as in 1998. This is bullshit, and embarrassing for him.
In Westminster in 1998 Unionists held
-West Tyrone
-Fermanagh and South Tyrone
-North Belfast
-South Belfast
-Lagan Valley
It is possible that they could win back Lagan Valley some day,  but the first four seats will never again be held by a Unionist for as long as Northern Ireland exists.
The world has changed,  Unionists don't have the numbers.  The time for Unity is NOW.

[AustinPowers]

First thing needs to happen  is to   agree  with the Brits on when a unity referendum   HAS to happen.  Be that voting/population numbers, or whatever

Until that happens , you're just shouting  into a hurricane.

[Aristo 60]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c93kkg37n3kt

Can't hurt the cause