Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 152943 times)

marty34

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2505 on: May 02, 2019, 08:26:34 AM »
Going to pull you up on that last sentence. You might well be arguing that NI’s days within UK are numbered but surely not arguing that NI ‘s days as a political entity are over

NI's purpose is to achieve a Protestant majority, if it does not do that what is the purpose of it?
Is that a serious question?

An inbuilt unionist majority - decided on a sectarian headcount nearly 100 years ago.

Everyone knows this!!

MoChara

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2506 on: May 02, 2019, 08:38:09 AM »
Am I correct in saying that there’s council elections up north today?
How’s it going to go?

Yeah there is, there will be a lot of bluster about voting for change and then everyone will go out and vote the same way as they always have before

Farrandeelin

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2507 on: May 02, 2019, 09:39:46 AM »
Going to pull you up on that last sentence. You might well be arguing that NI’s days within UK are numbered but surely not arguing that NI ‘s days as a political entity are over

NI's purpose is to achieve a Protestant majority, if it does not do that what is the purpose of it?
Is that a serious question?

Of course. There was a reason the other three Ulster counties were excluded. Why Tyrone and Fermanagh were included, I am led to believe (though I may be wrong) was because it wasn't meant to look as bad from the Protestant majority point of view.
The woman in red has the car parked on the slope.

seafoid

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2508 on: May 02, 2019, 10:19:23 AM »
Going to pull you up on that last sentence. You might well be arguing that NI’s days within UK are numbered but surely not arguing that NI ‘s days as a political entity are over

NI's purpose is to achieve a Protestant majority, if it does not do that what is the purpose of it?
Is that a serious question?

Of course. There was a reason the other three Ulster counties were excluded. Why Tyrone and Fermanagh were included, I am led to believe (though I may be wrong) was because it wasn't meant to look as bad from the Protestant majority point of view.
I think anything smaller wouldn't have been viable.
Lookit

smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2509 on: May 02, 2019, 10:47:50 AM »
Is there anybody on this forum who thinks that if NI and RoI each voted in separate referenda for a UI that this new Ireland would operate as a unitary state with no NI within it voting for a stormont?

BennyCake

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2510 on: May 02, 2019, 11:28:44 AM »
I honestly think rather than NI failing to exist, they’ll just discard a couple of counties and hold what they have. It might be the only way to prevent decades of troubles again.

Only Antrim and Down have unionist majority, but I’d imagine they’d hang onto Armagh as well, as it contains Dan Winters cottage and the OO museum. Unless they move that brick by brick. Oh, and it has Portydown in it. You couldn’t possibly leave that in that “Irish Republic”

playwiththewind1st

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2511 on: May 02, 2019, 11:35:01 AM »
You can put it anywhere you like - it's a shithole.

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2512 on: May 02, 2019, 11:45:17 AM »
The new All Ireland State won't be a Unitary State.
It will most likely be a Confederation with 2 "Home Rule" regions based on the 26 and 6 County Areas.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2513 on: May 02, 2019, 12:48:29 PM »
The new All Ireland State won't be a Unitary State.
It will most likely be a Confederation with 2 "Home Rule" regions based on the 26 and 6 County Areas.

I think you have got the drift of this.

NI surviving or not is not about the redrawing of the border it’s about the virtually impossibility of there being a unitary state in a new Ireland. NI will exist. So even in a UI NI has to be made work.

Try getting a SF candidate to engage in this point though?

And in my experience there are some SF voters who back SF’s “strategic” dodging of governmental responsibilities as a mean of proving NI not being to work without realising that even in a UI there will still be a stormont, a NI, a need for consent of 2 communities, a GFA, a role for the GB government etc etc

It seems SF have a vested interest in ignorance


trailer

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2514 on: May 02, 2019, 12:55:53 PM »
The new All Ireland State won't be a Unitary State.
It will most likely be a Confederation with 2 "Home Rule" regions based on the 26 and 6 County Areas.

I think you have got the drift of this.

NI surviving or not is not about the redrawing of the border it’s about the virtually impossibility of there being a unitary state in a new Ireland. NI will exist. So even in a UI NI has to be made work.

Try getting a SF candidate to engage in this point though?

And in my experience there are some SF voters who back SF’s “strategic” dodging of governmental responsibilities as a mean of proving NI not being to work without realising that even in a UI there will still be a stormont, a NI, a need for consent of 2 communities, a GFA, a role for the GB government etc etc

It seems SF have a vested interest in ignorance

This

SF haven't the intelligence to understand this. For everyday they grandstand on equality issues they are pushing any possible UI further and further away.
The GFA is the only show in town. The sooner people realise this, then the sooner we can get on with the serious business of making NI work and work it must if you want to achieve a UI as I do.

BennyCake

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2515 on: May 02, 2019, 12:58:09 PM »
Yeah good points smelmoth.

Someone said a few posts back, there’d be interesting times ahead if the south rejected the north uniting. Likewise, if GB rejected the north as part of the UK.

Can you imagine if both happened?

Would there even be justification for SF and DUP existing?

smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2516 on: May 02, 2019, 01:15:29 PM »
The simple question today (this very day) is what is the point of voting SF?

NI has to be made work- can anybody sincerely say that SF or DUP is the best way to make NI work? The future can start now if people would only wake up to it

Kickham csc

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2517 on: May 02, 2019, 01:20:31 PM »
The new All Ireland State won't be a Unitary State.
It will most likely be a Confederation with 2 "Home Rule" regions based on the 26 and 6 County Areas.

I think you have got the drift of this.

NI surviving or not is not about the redrawing of the border it’s about the virtually impossibility of there being a unitary state in a new Ireland. NI will exist. So even in a UI NI has to be made work.

Try getting a SF candidate to engage in this point though?

And in my experience there are some SF voters who back SF’s “strategic” dodging of governmental responsibilities as a mean of proving NI not being to work without realising that even in a UI there will still be a stormont, a NI, a need for consent of 2 communities, a GFA, a role for the GB government etc etc

It seems SF have a vested interest in ignorance

This

SF haven't the intelligence to understand this. For everyday they grandstand on equality issues they are pushing any possible UI further and further away.
The GFA is the only show in town. The sooner people realise this, then the sooner we can get on with the serious business of making NI work and work it must if you want to achieve a UI as I do.

Think you are wrong there. I believe SF have a long term strategy and are working towards that. Look at how they managed SDLP, growth in the south, and even how they managed Brexit (relatively bruise free). They are a durable party, that are prepared to "tough it out" during periods of bad press.

On unification,  and evidence of them considering changes that will be required to accommodate the British / Unionist identify, she spoke last year about being open to discussions on Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth.

I think SF have a better understanding the objectives of the game that others are giving them credit for.
 

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smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2519 on: May 02, 2019, 02:26:24 PM »
The new All Ireland State won't be a Unitary State.
It will most likely be a Confederation with 2 "Home Rule" regions based on the 26 and 6 County Areas.

I think you have got the drift of this.

NI surviving or not is not about the redrawing of the border it’s about the virtually impossibility of there being a unitary state in a new Ireland. NI will exist. So even in a UI NI has to be made work.

Try getting a SF candidate to engage in this point though?

And in my experience there are some SF voters who back SF’s “strategic” dodging of governmental responsibilities as a mean of proving NI not being to work without realising that even in a UI there will still be a stormont, a NI, a need for consent of 2 communities, a GFA, a role for the GB government etc etc

It seems SF have a vested interest in ignorance

This

SF haven't the intelligence to understand this. For everyday they grandstand on equality issues they are pushing any possible UI further and further away.
The GFA is the only show in town. The sooner people realise this, then the sooner we can get on with the serious business of making NI work and work it must if you want to achieve a UI as I do.

Think you are wrong there. I believe SF have a long term strategy and are working towards that. Look at how they managed SDLP, growth in the south, and even how they managed Brexit (relatively bruise free). They are a durable party, that are prepared to "tough it out" during periods of bad press.

On unification,  and evidence of them considering changes that will be required to accommodate the British / Unionist identify, she spoke last year about being open to discussions on Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth.

I think SF have a better understanding the objectives of the game that others are giving them credit for.

Are they any good at delivering government?

Are their candidates truthful about NI continuing to exist even in a UI?