A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[yellowcard]

Wishing the uk to retain the 6 counties, yes that's a unionist. But if someone doesn't give a f**k either way, is that a unionist?

In some ways that is worse, unionists are generally unionists because they were brought up that way, dysfunction passed on from generation to generation. Mé féiners don't have that excuse.

It is only dysfunction in your opinion and no more dysfunctional than those who would plunge the country into years of further violence by forcing through a UI on the basis 50% + 1 or those on both sides who continued violence since the initial power sharing agreement at Sunningdale (mostly violence for the sake of violence).

Probably better to recognise that there are cultural nationalist who are pro-union with GB rather than expressing them as unionists given the connotation of such terminology.  The great fear for SF is that any stability that working through Stormont would bring will create more cultural nationalists who are pro union and even a growing number of SF republicans who are at best agnostic on the union with GB and at worst (for SF) pro union.  On the other hand, failure to work Stormont will result in direct rule, which for the foreseeable future with the DUP in charge of the Tories, will be as benign as the assembly in terms of the economy and softening of austerity that is gripping the UK.

So let me get this straight, you believe that should a border poll be won that it requires more than 51%? Should we now start rewriting the agreement to increase the % needed, that's just ridiculous. Should Brexit have taken 60% to win it and not a simple majority. Just because you might not get the result that you want at some point in the future you can't start rewriting the rules. I'm afraid that's democracy.

[Applesisapples]

Nationalists even when the 32 Counties were under British Rule were in general accepting of their lot for a long time, the Brits changed that with their reaction to 1916 and the introductions of the Tans etc... So we have a similar situation in the remaining 6. However Unionist behaviour at a political level is changing that mindset hence the rise of SF. There is still a job to be done to reassure those neutral on a UI and convince them. If Unionists really wanted to secure the Union they would accept us as equals, accept Irish language, sport and culture as equal and have Irish flags and symbols given official status. But they are so entrenched in the notion that any move to equality no matter how small is some how a loss to their community that they utterly refuse to budge. It also amazes me how most Unionist commentators, surprisingly also including the normally astute and balanced Newto Emerson and Sam McBride do not understand that nationalists as a whole do not care one jot about Westminster or Stormont (with the exception of the shrinking SDLP fast becoming Uncle Toms).

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Wishing the uk to retain the 6 counties, yes that's a unionist. But if someone doesn't give a f**k either way, is that a unionist?

In some ways that is worse, unionists are generally unionists because they were brought up that way, dysfunction passed on from generation to generation. Mé féiners don't have that excuse.

It is only dysfunction in your opinion and no more dysfunctional than those who would plunge the country into years of further violence by forcing through a UI on the basis 50% + 1 or those on both sides who continued violence since the initial power sharing agreement at Sunningdale (mostly violence for the sake of violence).

Probably better to recognise that there are cultural nationalist who are pro-union with GB rather than expressing them as unionists given the connotation of such terminology.  The great fear for SF is that any stability that working through Stormont would bring will create more cultural nationalists who are pro union and even a growing number of SF republicans who are at best agnostic on the union with GB and at worst (for SF) pro union.  On the other hand, failure to work Stormont will result in direct rule, which for the foreseeable future with the DUP in charge of the Tories, will be as benign as the assembly in terms of the economy and softening of austerity that is gripping the UK.

So let me get this straight, you believe that should a border poll be won that it requires more than 51%? Should we now start rewriting the agreement to increase the % needed, that's just ridiculous. Should Brexit have taken 60% to win it and not a simple majority. Just because you might not get the result that you want at some point in the future you can't start rewriting the rules. I'm afraid that's democracy.

The one sure thing THAT WILL cause violence is if suddenly 50% +1 isnt deemed enough for unity.

[Franko]

There's no forcing to be done.  The principle of consent, the 50% +1, is the absolute cornerstone of the GFA.  This sort of nonsense talk will only justify any unionist violence in the event of nationalists ever winning a UI vote.

[02]

The brits can't wait to get rid of yous, great work by the May/DUP alliance!

[Sandino]

The break down of the Stormont talks is not even mentioned on the main BBC website. That's how they see us.

[BennyCake]

The break down of the Stormont talks is not even mentioned on the main BBC website. That's how they see us.

The North, to the average Brit, might as well be Outer Mongolia. They don't give a shit about it. Which is why this border poll should be held in Britain. I'd imagine 90%+ will vote to get shot (pardon the pun) of it.

[WT4E]

Are we now in the unusual opposite position:

DUP want government devolved to the wee 6 so they can spend their windfall on Orange Halls and Bake Sales

whereas

Sinn Fein want return to Direct Rule to undermine DUP so that people see them for the homophobic sectarian cretans that they are!

[red hander]

Nationalists even when the 32 Counties were under British Rule were in general accepting of their lot for a long time, the Brits changed that with their reaction to 1916 and the introductions of the Tans etc... So we have a similar situation in the remaining 6. However Unionist behaviour at a political level is changing that mindset hence the rise of SF. There is still a job to be done to reassure those neutral on a UI and convince them. If Unionists really wanted to secure the Union they would accept us as equals, accept Irish language, sport and culture as equal and have Irish flags and symbols given official status. But they are so entrenched in the notion that any move to equality no matter how small is some how a loss to their community that they utterly refuse to budge. It also amazes me how most Unionist commentators, surprisingly also including the normally astute and balanced Newto Emerson and Sam McBride do not understand that nationalists as a whole do not care one jot about Westminster or Stormont (with the exception of the shrinking SDLP fast becoming Uncle Toms).

Very true. I would be all for disengaging completely from Stormont (flatten it and turn it into a park) and Westminster. By all means stand in elections, but abstain as a protest against ongoing British interference in Ireland and let the world know the truth about this complete mockery of a failed statelet

[OgraAnDun]

Nationalists even when the 32 Counties were under British Rule were in general accepting of their lot for a long time, the Brits changed that with their reaction to 1916 and the introductions of the Tans etc... So we have a similar situation in the remaining 6. However Unionist behaviour at a political level is changing that mindset hence the rise of SF. There is still a job to be done to reassure those neutral on a UI and convince them. If Unionists really wanted to secure the Union they would accept us as equals, accept Irish language, sport and culture as equal and have Irish flags and symbols given official status. But they are so entrenched in the notion that any move to equality no matter how small is some how a loss to their community that they utterly refuse to budge. It also amazes me how most Unionist commentators, surprisingly also including the normally astute and balanced Newto Emerson and Sam McBride do not understand that nationalists as a whole do not care one jot about Westminster or Stormont (with the exception of the shrinking SDLP fast becoming Uncle Toms).

Very true. I would be all for disengaging completely from Stormont (flatten it and turn it into a park) and Westminster. By all means stand in elections, but abstain as a protest against ongoing British interference in Ireland and let the world know the truth about this complete mockery of a failed statelet

Completely agree.

[balladmaker]

It's obvious for anyone with non-blinkered unionist eyes that the north is a failed statelet, partition for almost 100 years has been a disaster for the 6 counties, mostly dependent on hand outs and public sector jobs to give the impression that it's a normal society, with only a fraction of private industry in the north compared to the south.  Belfast, once the industrial powerhouse of Ireland, is a shadow of its former self.

I think the DUP have really shot themselves in the foot for short term gain ... they are hung up on the Brexit vote being a UK wide vote and we MUST respect democracy ... so why not put another referendum to a UK wide vote, Do you wish NI to remain part of the UK?  Yes or No.  I think the DUP would be shocked by the result of that UK wide poll, and of course, we must respect the democratic result except when it suits them.

Sinn Fein have no interest in making Stormont work, and why should they, it's a failed entity and needs to he shown to the world for what it is.

[omaghjoe]

Your pretty delusion lads if you a UK wide vote would  result be pro UI. You overestimate the English, just look at Brexit FFS. The reason they voted for it wasnt because they felt like the EU took too much money for them, it was because they believe that they should reestablish their empire which the EU is preventing them from doing.
Or indyref & the SNP, the Scots are a bunch of scrougers apparently but when they wanted to go it alone Sturgeon Salmon etc are evil personified.

There is no way the average English person would be willing to give up any more of their empire if they can help it, no matter how much it costs.

[Minder]

It's obvious for anyone with non-blinkered unionist eyes that the north is a failed statelet, partition for almost 100 years has been a disaster for the 6 counties, mostly dependent on hand outs and public sector jobs to give the impression that it's a normal society, with only a fraction of private industry in the north compared to the south.  Belfast, once the industrial powerhouse of Ireland, is a shadow of its former self.

I think the DUP have really shot themselves in the foot for short term gain ... they are hung up on the Brexit vote being a UK wide vote and we MUST respect democracy ... so why not put another referendum to a UK wide vote, Do you wish NI to remain part of the UK?  Yes or No.  I think the DUP would be shocked by the result of that UK wide poll, and of course, we must respect the democratic result accept when it suits them.

Sinn Fein have no interest in making Stormont work, and why should they, it's a failed entity and needs to he shown to the world for what it is.

Does anyone think the world cares?

[BennyCake]

Your pretty delusion lads if you a UK wide vote would  result be pro UI. You overestimate the English, just look at Brexit FFS. The reason they voted for it wasnt because they felt like the EU took too much money for them, it was because they believe that they should reestablish their empire which the EU is preventing them from doing.
Or indyref & the SNP, the Scots are a bunch of scrougers apparently but when they wanted to go it alone Sturgeon Salmon etc are evil personified.

There is no way the average English person would be willing to give up any more of their empire if they can help it, no matter how much it costs.

There were lots of reasons why people voted for Brexit. They didn't all vote for it for the same one reason.

[armaghniac]

Brexit was obviously sold to Imperial types, who resented that partnership in the EU where Britian is not boss.  But it took a false narrative about the economy and £350m for the NHS to get it over the line. Hard to see how you can claim that keeping NI is economically beneficial to England.