Time to scrap the National Leagues?

[ck]

Leagues should stay but format should change.

the reason you have teams going through the motions is because A. some are 3 weeks out from C/ship and being careful B. Some are 8 or 9 weeks out and perhaps are in heavy training. This underlines the farce that is the elongated C'ship season.

The change I would make is pay off NFL with no semi finals. Every team in Ireland should be involved in 1st round C/ship over the same weekend so you have less of this nonsense of teams preparing against different time scales.

[yellowcard]

Yes but it gives fans of the smaller counties an opportunity to celebrate winning some silverware. For example, some Armagh posters have been giddy with excitement since Saturday night, do we really want to rob them of their only real potential chance of glory?

So presumably you are not in favour of the McKenna Cup being scrapped then as it gives Tyrone their annual shot at provincial glory.

[blewuporstuffed]

This year's semis and finals were in the main a good case for scrapping those games.
However the Oul € argument comes into play here.
60,000 attendances probably grossed gate money of €750k.Add in programme sales, shops, bar and food....
A lot of dish not to sneezed at.

Maybe so, but if you improved the overall quality and competiveness of the league you could add a couple of thousand to every game in the league, every week.
This would offset alot of what you lose from the league finals.
Personally I would get rid of the mckenna cup etc and extend the league season slightly (3 divisions, 10 rounds of games) with the team finishing top winning the league and bottom 2 relegated/ top 2 romoted from divs 2 &3.
As i have mentioned before , i would also use this as a method of qualifying for a top 16 all ireland knockout competition, with the bottom 16 teams palying in the 'B' competition.(ie. all of div 1, top half of div 2 and the previous years B AI winners form the 'top 16)
Provincial championships to be played as a separate 'cup' competition. Also straight knockout.

That suggestion may be more drastic, but i think its far more workable for the league and championship than what we have now and gives all counties at what ever level a realistic goal to aim for.
for div 1 teams, the chance to win the league, and if not, retaining div 1 staus is important to ensure competing in the 'A' All ireland every year.
In div 2, getting promted to Div 1 guarantees playing in the 'A' comp for the next couple of years, for the teams in the middle, finishing in the top half qualifies them for that years 'A' comp.
for the bottom fo div 2, staying up is essential to give the chance of qualifying for the 'A' comp the followings season.
In div 3, getting promoted, will give the chance of qualifying for the main compettion teh following year.
For all teams in the B competion, they will have the goal of winning that to qualify for the following eyars top 16.

All counties will compete as normal for thier provincial championship

The arguement against thsiw ill be that no county wants to paly in the B allireland, which is fair enough, however, it gives every county a realistic pathway for progress, which i dont think we really have at the  minute.

[Rossfan]

Grossed. But what was the Net I wonder? We've heard before that Croker needs a 30,000 crowd to break even, although I assume that means both decks open. there was hardly 30'000 there on Saturday was there?

I think that 30,000 figure was based on the total cost of Croker div by the number of times it was used.
With no debt I expect one AI final pays for the running costs??.

[manfromdelmonte]

I doubt the GAA are relying on league semis and finals to be in profit each year

[Syferus]

Grossed. But what was the Net I wonder? We've heard before that Croker needs a 30,000 crowd to break even, although I assume that means both decks open. there was hardly 30'000 there on Saturday was there?

I think that 30,000 figure was based on the total cost of Croker div by the number of times it was used.
With no debt I expect one AI final pays for the running costs??.

It breaks even with less than 5k now. Sure for Schools finals do they even open the Cusack stand, nevermind the upper tier? Running costs are pretty minimal at Croke Park now.

[illdecide]

There was only 8000 odd at the games on sat night...

[Captain Obvious]

Semi finals in a group of eight is the first thing that should be scrapped. Last two division one finals were one sided which can happen. To make the division two,three,four finals more competitive how about having only the winner of each final promoted?

[macdanger2]

To make the division two,three,four finals more competitive how about having only the winner of each final promoted?

The downside of that is that with only one team going down from a division, the later rounds of the league will have more dead rubbers

[muppet]

The League will always be of secondary importance unless it is somehow integrated into the Championship.

There are lots of ways to do that, all with pros and cons. But if you do it to any degree, teams will then take it very seriously.

Just to illustrate, imagine if every year the provincial draws were scrapped and the fixtures were based on League position. You would have seedings along the lines of Tennis, e.g top seeds would only meet at finals, top 4 only at semis etc.

While little would change for the likes of the current Kerry and Dublin teams, it could be very competitive for other counties.

[naka]

i liked the old days whenever there were quarter finals and semi finals,
lets say
top two teams in each division go into an open draw fro quarter finals
then open draw for semi finals
gives the top in the fourth division a shout at playing a division 2/1 team

[brokencrossbar1]

League format in 3 Divisions.  Top team promoted.  The championship system  revamped to have senior, intermediate and junior same as the club system.  3 championships with the winner being promoted a la club championship.  2 relegated each year in the league.  The winners of the League and the winners of the Championship are promoted.  Retain the Provincials as stand along competitions.

[Stall the Bailer]

League format in 3 Divisions.  Top team promoted.  The championship system  revamped to have senior, intermediate and junior same as the club system.  3 championships with the winner being promoted a la club championship.  2 relegated each year in the league.  The winners of the League and the winners of the Championship are promoted.  Retain the Provincials as stand along competitions.

BC would it be  3 divisions with 11 teams each, or a 16, 8, 9?

3x11 would mean some teams would have a bye in the first round.

[brokencrossbar1]

League format in 3 Divisions.  Top team promoted.  The championship system  revamped to have senior, intermediate and junior same as the club system.  3 championships with the winner being promoted a la club championship.  2 relegated each year in the league.  The winners of the League and the winners of the Championship are promoted.  Retain the Provincials as stand along competitions.

BC would it be  3 divisions with 11 teams each, or a 16, 8, 9?

3x11 would mean some teams would have a bye in the first round.

yes some teams would get a bye in the first round but if you use a system similar to the one that is used in monaghan then you are guaranteed a second back door game.

[Stall the Bailer]

It works well at club level (senior, intermediate, junior).
All clubs have a realistic possibility of winning a cherished title. I don't see why it couldn't work at county level.