Donegal v Tyrone Sun 17 May

[J70]

Gathered to discuss.  Preplanned among players, yes. No evidence coaches or management were involved, however. The only word about coaching regarding mouthing in the book is about counteracting the expected Tyrone sledging!

Gathered to discuss, prelanned and demonstrated(which u left out). That's a pretty good definition of coaching.

The players themselves. No coaches or management dictating or implementing.  I see no difference between that and players watching each other do it in matches or chatting about it without watching a Brian Dawkins video on someone's phone or whatever. It just ideas spreading among lads about stuff they're all aware of anyway from playing. If you think it's such a big deal and significant distinction, suit yourself.

[omaghjoe]

Gathered to discuss.  Preplanned among players, yes. No evidence coaches or management were involved, however. The only word about coaching regarding mouthing in the book is about counteracting the expected Tyrone sledging!

Gathered to discuss, prelanned and demonstrated(which u left out). That's a pretty good definition of coaching.

The players themselves. No coaches or management dictating or implementing.  I see no difference between that and players watching each other do it in matches or chatting about it without watching a Brian Dawkins video on someone's phone or whatever. It just ideas spreading among lads about stuff they're all aware of anyway from playing. If you think it's such a big deal and significant distinction, suit yourself.

Well you see there is a difference one would be giving a bad example and the other would be demonstrating this is what you should be doing and this is how to do it.

Whether management involved or not, it is still organised coaching of sledging by the Donegal Senior county team.

Althought I find it difficult to disclude the management from involvement considering the fact that they organise the training and some of the coaching that took place at the training was coaching for sledging. Throw in the wristbands, the Stasi style type operation JMG ran, and Gallagher's renowned sledging when he was a player, its almost laughable to imagine that the management weren't the main overseers of the sledging coaching.

However for the sake of argument lets disclude them here, the fact still remains:
Donegal Senior football team are the only county were this is evidence of sledging being coached.

[Main Street]

So you are saying Harte never knew what the likes of McMenamin and boys like him were doing for all those years? Because if he did, and took no action to stop, then that is turning a blind eye to it.

And in Donegal's case it was the players showing each other the Dawkins video. Even in Donegal they have smart phones, you know! Coaching it would be McGuinness and staff talking to players about it, encouraging players to engage in it. There is evidence of that.

Regardless,  McGuinness,  just like Harte, allowed it to go on.

When talking about turning a blind eye to it I was referring to the coaching of sledging not the actual sledging itself. Harte obviously tolerated the actual sledging at some level. I used to get a right rollicking from underage managers for slabbering but they never took me off so I suppose you could say they tolerated as well. I imagine this is what the Harte Ricey scenario was regarding it.
But regarding turning a blind eye to the coaching of sledging there is no evidence of that whatsoever, and there is also no evidence of coaching sledging in the Tyrone setup under Harte.

With the McGuinnes Donegal setup on the other hand there is evidence that it was preplanned and coached. A video of a man sledging was watched at training as an example of to how to be nasty on the field. Right or wrong whatever, that's coaching sledging.

So if the players had looked at the video in the pub and shared it by email it would NOT be "coaching"? The fact that they looked at it at training is what matters?

The fact is they approached McGuinness about it and there is no evidence that he or the coaching staff presented the idea to the squad or encouraged it.

Unless there is evidence to the contrary?

Besides,  what difference would it make anyway. Watching a video or talking to/observing the on - field conduct of your colleagues and opponents, it's not as if Cassidy was introducing a tactic none of these players had previously seen. You think Colm McFadden decked Brian Dooher in 2007 for no reason? Or various other players on the team who, at various times over the years had reacted to sledging and got the line? They'd seen the effectiveness of the practice over the previous decade.

J70, you make it sound as if McFadden actually had to hit Dooher in order to deck him.

[omaghjoe]

So you are saying Harte never knew what the likes of McMenamin and boys like him were doing for all those years? Because if he did, and took no action to stop, then that is turning a blind eye to it.

And in Donegal's case it was the players showing each other the Dawkins video. Even in Donegal they have smart phones, you know! Coaching it would be McGuinness and staff talking to players about it, encouraging players to engage in it. There is evidence of that.

Regardless,  McGuinness,  just like Harte, allowed it to go on.

When talking about turning a blind eye to it I was referring to the coaching of sledging not the actual sledging itself. Harte obviously tolerated the actual sledging at some level. I used to get a right rollicking from underage managers for slabbering but they never took me off so I suppose you could say they tolerated as well. I imagine this is what the Harte Ricey scenario was regarding it.
But regarding turning a blind eye to the coaching of sledging there is no evidence of that whatsoever, and there is also no evidence of coaching sledging in the Tyrone setup under Harte.

With the McGuinnes Donegal setup on the other hand there is evidence that it was preplanned and coached. A video of a man sledging was watched at training as an example of to how to be nasty on the field. Right or wrong whatever, that's coaching sledging.

So if the players had looked at the video in the pub and shared it by email it would NOT be "coaching"? The fact that they looked at it at training is what matters?

The fact is they approached McGuinness about it and there is no evidence that he or the coaching staff presented the idea to the squad or encouraged it.

Unless there is evidence to the contrary?

Besides,  what difference would it make anyway. Watching a video or talking to/observing the on - field conduct of your colleagues and opponents, it's not as if Cassidy was introducing a tactic none of these players had previously seen. You think Colm McFadden decked Brian Dooher in 2007 for no reason? Or various other players on the team who, at various times over the years had reacted to sledging and got the line? They'd seen the effectiveness of the practice over the previous decade.

J70, you make it sound as if McFadden actually had to hit Dooher in order to deck him.

Where's the Tyrone bunting these days? I was disappointed there was none up to welcome home our latest all-Ireland champions.

[thebuzz]

J70, you make it sound as if McFadden actually had to hit Dooher in order to deck him.
[/quote]

Surely J70 means Dooher was sledging McFadden so much that he just lost his temper and hit him?

[omaghjoe]

J70, you make it sound as if McFadden actually had to hit Dooher in order to deck him.

Surely J70 means Dooher was sledging McFadden so much that he just lost his temper and hit him?
[/quote]

Sweet mother of God 

[J70]

Gathered to discuss.  Preplanned among players, yes. No evidence coaches or management were involved, however. The only word about coaching regarding mouthing in the book is about counteracting the expected Tyrone sledging!

Gathered to discuss, prelanned and demonstrated(which u left out). That's a pretty good definition of coaching.

The players themselves. No coaches or management dictating or implementing.  I see no difference between that and players watching each other do it in matches or chatting about it without watching a Brian Dawkins video on someone's phone or whatever. It just ideas spreading among lads about stuff they're all aware of anyway from playing. If you think it's such a big deal and significant distinction, suit yourself.

Well you see there is a difference one would be giving a bad example and the other would be demonstrating this is what you should be doing and this is how to do it.

Whether management involved or not, it is still organised coaching of sledging by the Donegal Senior county team.

Althought I find it difficult to disclude the management from involvement considering the fact that they organise the training and some of the coaching that took place at the training was coaching for sledging. Throw in the wristbands, the Stasi style type operation JMG ran, and Gallagher's renowned sledging when he was a player, its almost laughable to imagine that the management weren't the main overseers of the sledging coaching.

However for the sake of argument lets disclude them here, the fact still remains:
Donegal Senior football team are the only county were this is evidence of sledging being coached.

Can we presume your suspicions about management involvement are equally as strong when it comes to the existence of sledging at various age levels in Tyrone then?

[omaghjoe]

Gathered to discuss.  Preplanned among players, yes. No evidence coaches or management were involved, however. The only word about coaching regarding mouthing in the book is about counteracting the expected Tyrone sledging!

Gathered to discuss, prelanned and demonstrated(which u left out). That's a pretty good definition of coaching.

The players themselves. No coaches or management dictating or implementing.  I see no difference between that and players watching each other do it in matches or chatting about it without watching a Brian Dawkins video on someone's phone or whatever. It just ideas spreading among lads about stuff they're all aware of anyway from playing. If you think it's such a big deal and significant distinction, suit yourself.

Well you see there is a difference one would be giving a bad example and the other would be demonstrating this is what you should be doing and this is how to do it.

Whether management involved or not, it is still organised coaching of sledging by the Donegal Senior county team.

Althought I find it difficult to disclude the management from involvement considering the fact that they organise the training and some of the coaching that took place at the training was coaching for sledging. Throw in the wristbands, the Stasi style type operation JMG ran, and Gallagher's renowned sledging when he was a player, its almost laughable to imagine that the management weren't the main overseers of the sledging coaching.

However for the sake of argument lets disclude them here, the fact still remains:
Donegal Senior football team are the only county were this is evidence of sledging being coached.

Can we presume your suspicions about management involvement are equally as strong when it comes to the existence of sledging at various age levels in Tyrone then?

How would you presume that? When there is no evidence of coaching sledging in Tyrone where as there is in the Donegal Senior County setup?

[J70]

Gathered to discuss.  Preplanned among players, yes. No evidence coaches or management were involved, however. The only word about coaching regarding mouthing in the book is about counteracting the expected Tyrone sledging!

Gathered to discuss, prelanned and demonstrated(which u left out). That's a pretty good definition of coaching.

The players themselves. No coaches or management dictating or implementing.  I see no difference between that and players watching each other do it in matches or chatting about it without watching a Brian Dawkins video on someone's phone or whatever. It just ideas spreading among lads about stuff they're all aware of anyway from playing. If you think it's such a big deal and significant distinction, suit yourself.

Well you see there is a difference one would be giving a bad example and the other would be demonstrating this is what you should be doing and this is how to do it.

Whether management involved or not, it is still organised coaching of sledging by the Donegal Senior county team.

Althought I find it difficult to disclude the management from involvement considering the fact that they organise the training and some of the coaching that took place at the training was coaching for sledging. Throw in the wristbands, the Stasi style type operation JMG ran, and Gallagher's renowned sledging when he was a player, its almost laughable to imagine that the management weren't the main overseers of the sledging coaching.

However for the sake of argument lets disclude them here, the fact still remains:
Donegal Senior football team are the only county were this is evidence of sledging being coached.

Can we presume your suspicions about management involvement are equally as strong when it comes to the existence of sledging at various age levels in Tyrone then?

How would you presume that? When there is no evidence of coaching sledging in Tyrone where as there is in the Donegal Senior County setup?

So the last few weeks is all a coincidence?

Just to be clear - I frankly don't care if Tyrone county or clubs coach it or not, and even if I did, I can hardly cast stones when players from my own county team are into the sledging game also. However, it is showing up in even your underage teams, hence the widespread accusations and suspicion cast upon your county of late. People are finding it hard to believe that it is completely coincidental that those teams are not being offered at least some pointers.

But go ahead and cling to the Donegal players sharing a video in order to get a few tips on how to fight fire with fire as evidence that at least you're not as bad as them'uns!

[omaghjoe]

Gathered to discuss.  Preplanned among players, yes. No evidence coaches or management were involved, however. The only word about coaching regarding mouthing in the book is about counteracting the expected Tyrone sledging!

Gathered to discuss, prelanned and demonstrated(which u left out). That's a pretty good definition of coaching.

The players themselves. No coaches or management dictating or implementing.  I see no difference between that and players watching each other do it in matches or chatting about it without watching a Brian Dawkins video on someone's phone or whatever. It just ideas spreading among lads about stuff they're all aware of anyway from playing. If you think it's such a big deal and significant distinction, suit yourself.

Well you see there is a difference one would be giving a bad example and the other would be demonstrating this is what you should be doing and this is how to do it.

Whether management involved or not, it is still organised coaching of sledging by the Donegal Senior county team.

Althought I find it difficult to disclude the management from involvement considering the fact that they organise the training and some of the coaching that took place at the training was coaching for sledging. Throw in the wristbands, the Stasi style type operation JMG ran, and Gallagher's renowned sledging when he was a player, its almost laughable to imagine that the management weren't the main overseers of the sledging coaching.

However for the sake of argument lets disclude them here, the fact still remains:
Donegal Senior football team are the only county were this is evidence of sledging being coached.

Can we presume your suspicions about management involvement are equally as strong when it comes to the existence of sledging at various age levels in Tyrone then?

How would you presume that? When there is no evidence of coaching sledging in Tyrone where as there is in the Donegal Senior County setup?

So the last few weeks is all a coincidence?

Just to be clear - I frankly don't care if Tyrone county or clubs coach it or not, and even if I did, I can hardly cast stones when players from my own county team are into the sledging game also. However, it is showing up in even your underage teams, hence the widespread accusations and suspicion cast upon your county of late. People are finding it hard to believe that it is completely coincidental that those teams are not being offered at least some pointers.

But go ahead and cling to the Donegal players sharing a video in order to get a few tips on how to fight fire with fire as evidence that at least you're not as bad as them'uns!

I'm not talking about one being as bad or worse or better than as the other.  I regard this discussion as dealing with facts not opinions or presumptions

As you've said Tyrone have been accused of coaching sledging based on the fact that players are doing it on the field and that it is systematically ingrained in the culture, however there is no zero evidence of this only presumptions. In response to this I just merely pointed out that the Donegal Senior County team are the only team where there is concrete evidence of coaching sledging. And you asked for this evidence so I gave it to you.

If you are happy with Donegal coaching it, that's fine, I'm just pointing it out that there is evidence that they do it.

[The Bearded One]

I see in today's Gaelic Life that Kevin Cassidy has addressed the claims that he abused Peter Harte in 2011 about Michaela's death. Some posters have accused him of hiding away from the current debate on 'sledging' but he has written a good column today.

[Fuzzman]

Did you see in last weeks Gaelic Life Mark Conway takes exception to some Board Poster having a anti Tyrone campaign starting back from the U21 semifinal onwards.
Wonder who's he is referring to?
Anyone got it online to post up
Must buy it today

[shawshank]

Who is Mark Conway?

[oakleafgael]

Who is Mark Conway?

Head of Club Tyrone, was very vociferous in his opposition to the GPA. 

[Main Street]

Who is Mark Conway?

Head of Club Tyrone, was very vociferous in his opposition to the GPA. 

He sounds like one of these odious Tyrone backwoods' characters.

It's amazing how some Tyronies manage to seamlessly  switch from paranoia to sledging to outrage, and sometimes managing all that in the same sentence.