The State Of Gaelic Football

[manfromdelmonte]

Are you nuts? There's a huge crossover between GAA and rugby/soccer fans.

Maybe, maybe not.
In the likes of Galway there is a definite soccer crowd (just about), rugby, football and hurling crowd.
My original point about the analysis of GAA games being very poor still stands

[Zulu]

Oh I agree the analysis of football is incredibly poor and only the GAA seems to be viewed through the prism of whether it was entertaining or not - "was it a good championship lads?"

That's not to say I agree with the 'it's a results business' crowd either, sport is entertainment too and we should be more innovative and adventurous in our tactics and mindset. 15 men behind the ball is evidence of a tactically bankrupt mind.

[J70]

Does anyone who watches a lot of Aussie Rules know if they employ anything like the blanket defence that is so popular now in GF. If not, what is it about AR that makes a blanket defence ineffective ?

I live in Australia and watch a fair bit. Scoring rates are far down on what they used to be and some games turn into a terrible rolling maul where scores are at a premium and 15 men are back for both sides.

The difference is that they don't use the odd bad game to destroy their sport's image because they don't have a couple of loudmouth pundits determined to make a name for themselves.

Gaelic football is the only sport I know of that is subject to this. There are boring games in soccer, rugby and AFL but people can write them off for what they are - the odd boring game.

In Australia they know they're in a battle with other codes and leap at every opportunity for self-promotion. To me Gaelic football is an infinitely superior watch to any of the three sports I've mentioned and yet everyone is talking about it like it's on its death bed.

The reality is that there are more classic games every summer now than any time I can remember with the possible exceptions of the mid-2000s. Watch Dublin-Donegal or Kerry-Mayo last year or Kerry-Dublin 2013. Then tell me which games from 1980-1995 you thought were better. What do people want from football? Every game to be 2-20 each?

Good post.

Gaelic football's biggest rival for crowds is hurling.
So negative comment doesn't really drive crowds to another sport.
Rugby is not a competitor for the majority of counties and neither is soccer.
Would I be right in saying that the AFL has much more control over media issues than the GAA?
Eg pundits, managers, players

There is very little insightful punditry in the GAA that does an indepth analysis of games. English soccer also has the same problem.
If you read papers in Italy, Spain or the USA the sports writers will really breakdown games and teams and explain what coaches and players were doing.
The same with tb shows. But they don't tend to cast judgement on the tactics usef

Clearly you are not from Ulster, Connacht or North Leinster. Hurling the biggest rival for crowds to Football. That made me laugh!

Most GAA people don't go near rugby or soccer games

Not the case in Donegal at least, where even the senior county players would be lining out for their local soccer teams in the winters, at least till very recently.

In my years living and playing soccer in Dublin, I also came across the senior county player on the field, even at my modest level.

[J70]

Oh I agree the analysis of football is incredibly poor and only the GAA seems to be viewed through the prism of whether it was entertaining or not - "was it a good championship lads?"

That's not to say I agree with the 'it's a results business' crowd either, sport is entertainment too and we should be more innovative and adventurous in our tactics and mindset. 15 men behind the ball is evidence of a tactically bankrupt mind.

Depends on the talent available and the opposition.  Tactics are about finding ways to win. If you're winning, the results can hardly be termed bankrupt.

[Zulu]

15  behind the ball is simply taking the most bog basic reality and employing it as a tactic. Of course getting everybody back into the scoring zone will make it more difficult for the opposition to score but if you feel that is necessary then you aren't much of a thinker on the game. Waterford against Dublin in an All Ireland semi final, I could understand the Waterford coach employing it, a top 10 team doing it is simply a bankrupt, cowardly, negative mindset.

EDIT: I wasn't saying you aren't much of a thinker on the game in the second line of the above post but that a coach that employs 15 behind the ball isn't much of a thinker.

[BennyHarp]

15  behind the ball is simply taking the most bog basic reality and employing it as a tactic. Of course getting everybody back into the scoring zone will make it more difficult for the opposition to score but if you feel that is necessary then you aren't much of a thinker on the game. Waterford against Dublin in an All Ireland semi final, I could understand the Waterford coach employing it, a top 10 team doing it is simply a bankrupt, cowardly, negative mindset.

Again, you fail to understand that an effective defensive system employs attacking from deep in numbers. It's not just about sitting inside your own 45 and not moving. The better teams can carry this out.

[Zulu]

I'm not failing to understand that at all Benny. In fact it seems you are failing to understand that that element of the tactic has been found out and when teams come up against the mass defence they simply leave their half backs in place thus negating the offensive element of the tactic. The only thing a massed defence achieves now is a turgid low scoring game. Donegal or Tyrone would have as much chance of beating Dublin in a conventional game as they would in a defensive game.

[BennyHarp]

I'm not failing to understand that at all Benny. In fact it seems you are failing to understand that that element of the tactic has been found out and when teams come up against the mass defence they simply leave their half backs in place thus negating the offensive element of the tactic. The only thing a massed defence achieves now is a turgid low scoring game. Donegal or Tyrone would have as much chance of beating Dublin in a conventional game as they would in a defensive game.

Has this tactic been found out? You just talk about men behind the ball, you never consider the attacking element to it. Donegal didn't get to an AI final last year by just sticking 15 men behind the ball, they were a poor kick out away from winning the AI, so when did these tactics become redundant? The problem lies when poor teams fail to apply an attacking element and that is poor coaching or poor implementation of tactics and we get the turgid games you talk of.

[Zulu]

 If it's only poor teams who can't play the system that leads to poor games why was last years All Ireland final so poor? The attacking element is found out and and all good teams will revert to keeping their half backs in place to counter mass defensive teams so when they break at speed they'll be held up by the half backs and the retreating forwards will ensure that the mass defence team meets a mass defence when they attack rather than the acres of space the system was designed to create. And therefore we'll get more brutal games.

[BennyHarp]

There was poor AI finals long before the blanket defence came along. With regards to keeping 6 defenders in position, has this been verified as a perfect solution to attacking from deep? I haven't seen too much evidence for that just yet. I think your being a bit premature with that sweeping analysis. But we'll wait and see.

[Zulu]

Absolutely but the infamous Dublin Donegal semi final was brutal, the All Ireland final was poor, Donegal v Antrim was brutal. All games where the opposition kept players back against a mass defence. Yesterday's colleges A final was a poor spectacle as well and again when had a massed defence team playing a team set up for them. There's two clear trends there, shite games but the better football team still wins.

[BennyHarp]

Maybe your right, the blanket defence has been found out and the game will move on, teams will have to adapt -  no need for any rules changes then so. Fingers crossed!

[Zulu]

I wouldn't be in favour of rule changes yet Benny but if the best teams can come up with is a mass defence and ball carrying attack then we'll have to look at ways in which we change that as the game as a spectacle would suffer immensely.

[manfromdelmonte]

Absolutely but the infamous Dublin Donegal semi final was brutal, the All Ireland final was poor, Donegal v Antrim was brutal. All games where the opposition kept players back against a mass defence. Yesterday's colleges A final was a poor spectacle as well and again when had a massed defence team playing a team set up for them. There's two clear trends there, shite games but the better football team still wins.

Maybe
But I doubt that CBS team would have got near that Hogan Cup final without being very defensive.
You have to admire teams who have a gameplan that is formulated on the players available and they execute it very well

[dublin7]

Absolutely but the infamous Dublin Donegal semi final was brutal, the All Ireland final was poor, Donegal v Antrim was brutal. All games where the opposition kept players back against a mass defence. Yesterday's colleges A final was a poor spectacle as well and again when had a massed defence team playing a team set up for them. There's two clear trends there, shite games but the better football team still wins.

Maybe
But I doubt that CBS team would have got near that Hogan Cup final without being very defensive.
You have to admire teams who have a gameplan that is formulated on the players available and they execute it very well

At senior level you can say it's all about the results but when managers at underage level start employing it, they should be sacked.  At that level it should about the skills of the game.  It's not like the teachers are under pressure to get results from the school principal.  Depressing to see school teams play like that yesterday.  No skill in parking 13 players in front of goal.