The State Of Gaelic Football

[AZOffaly]

There's this misconception that an open game can't be 'intense'. Of course it can. The players bring the intensity, so a man on man battle for possession can be every bit as intense as  4 lads surrounding a ball carrier who has traipsed into their web. As I said before, I think defending is an artform itself, but the art of man for man defending, blocking, harrying, is far more pleasing to me than a schematic which involves relieving individual players of that responsibility, and instead giving them a role in a space denying structure.

[macdanger2]

How about we implement the rules we have for a start before introducing new rules.

For a start, players / managers should be made aware that any sort of a jersey pull will be blown up, doesn't matter if it's only for a second if you pull the jersey it's a free. Applied to both forwards and backs equally

Simple enough to enforce as well as it's one offence where you can't "accidentally" grab someone's jersey

[take_yer_points]

How about we implement the rules we have for a start before introducing new rules.

For a start, players / managers should be made aware that any sort of a jersey pull will be blown up, doesn't matter if it's only for a second if you pull the jersey it's a free. Applied to both forwards and backs equally

Simple enough to enforce as well as it's one offence where you can't "accidentally" grab someone's jersey

And apply the overcarrying rule correctly. If a defender knows an opposition player has to release the ball (whether that be an attempted pass to a team mate, a shot at goal or a solo/bounce) after 4 steps then it makes it a hell of a lot easier to defend against. At the minute it's anybody's guess how many steps will be allowed which makes defending so much more difficult

[blewuporstuffed]

How about we implement the rules we have for a start before introducing new rules.

For a start, players / managers should be made aware that any sort of a jersey pull will be blown up, doesn't matter if it's only for a second if you pull the jersey it's a free. Applied to both forwards and backs equally

Simple enough to enforce as well as it's one offence where you can't "accidentally" grab someone's jersey

And apply the overcarrying rule correctly. If a defender knows an opposition player has to release the ball (whether that be an attempted pass to a team mate, a shot at goal or a solo/bounce) after 4 steps then it makes it a hell of a lot easier to defend against. At the minute it's anybody's guess how many steps will be allowed which makes defending so much more difficult

I would agree with both of those posts.

Making a  point from distance worth 2 points sounds ok in theory, but again its a fundamental change in the game just to adress a current tactical trend, its too drastic IMO.
Apart form that its another call for a referee to make on where  the ballw as struck from etc and would make a difficult job even moreso.

[AZOffaly]

I also agree with them, but it's much more likely the GAA will decide to try something innovative to be seen to send a message about that 'sort of thing'.

If I was a betting man, I'd say something along the lines of 4 men having to stay in the opposition half. But whatever Brolly starts harping on about will be the preferred approach. (Not that he'd set the agenda per se, but he'd pick up on it, and start being the voice of it).

[Zulu]

My God there are some shite talkers on here spouting nonsense. Quoting Kevin Cassidy! And Joe Brolly! Sure them two spoofers will be saying the complete opposite next week. Didnt Joe Brolly make the most withering personal attack on Grimley when he was managing Armagh for not setting up defensively against Cavan a couple of years ago.

And fantasising that Michael Murphy will be regretting his role for Doneagal playing defensively. A role which has took him within  a hair of a 2nd Celtic cross. What a pile of steaming sh**e.

Reading this board is like going to a county match and having to listen to the most astonishing drivel from people who have most obviously never played football and go to one or two matches a year at most, and are then are espousing the latest crackpot theory they've seen on last week's SG as if it's their own original and dearly held thoughts.

Nonsense. There is a genuine issue here and it is harming the game. AZ says the GAA will do something once people start walking away from the game, I'd suggest it could be too late at that stage.

I've read some fairly bizarre stuff on this thread, like go to the cinema if you want entertainment!! Jesus wept, what is sport when your a spectator if not a form of entertainment?

Others have asked should teams just roll over and take a hammering. That might have some merit if we were talking about Carlow or Waterford but we're talking about the top teams in the country, if they are certain to get hammered unless they play defensively then what the hell are they doing in their academies? Anyway, nobody is saying a team shouldn't play a sweeper or track back but if the only way you can keep competitive is to get ALL 15 players into their own 45 then we have a problem in our game.

Others have bizarrely tried to blame the opposition and not on the team getting 15 back, they show a lack of imagination apparently. Well if any of you have coached a team you'll know that there is no truly effective counter plan to this system other than mimic it. You can't drag defenders out by positioning players wide or getting them to run into certain areas because defenders are told to leave them off and we'll meet them when they come back into the scoring zone.

Others again ask why is getting everybody back such a problem when sports like soccer or basketball do it, are these boys serious?

Others seem happy to be beaten in a close game playing shite football rather than beaten more comfortably (is that a guarantee?) going for the game? I seem to remember underdogs winning in the past having a go but apparently you only have a chance against a team a bit better than you if you play everyone in your own 45.

This defensive shite is football tumbling to the lowest common denominator where games are low scoring and won by soft frees and/or a mistake leading to a goal. How anyone can argue this is not a serious issue is beyond me.

[AZOffaly]

Zulu, I'm saying they will do that if the perceive a risk of that happening. I'd suggest that's already in motion.

I can see both aspects here, but I think we have to protect the game as a spectacle. We shouldn't punish defending per se, but we should try and legislate against over negative tactics. I would like to see the 'steps' and the jersey pull enforced.

[Rossfan]

How about we implement the rules we have for a start before introducing new rules.

For a start, players / managers should be made aware that any sort of a jersey pull will be blown up, doesn't matter if it's only for a second if you pull the jersey it's a free. Applied to both forwards and backs equally

Simple enough to enforce as well as it's one offence where you can't "accidentally" grab someone's jersey

And apply the overcarrying rule correctly. If a defender knows an opposition player has to release the ball (whether that be an attempted pass to a team mate, a shot at goal or a solo/bounce) after 4 steps then it makes it a hell of a lot easier to defend against. At the minute it's anybody's guess how many steps will be allowed which makes defending so much more difficult

I would agree with both of those posts.

I would agree with the three posts It would also help if refs stopped giving frees to every ball carrier who falls down when any defender comes near.
One rule I'd bring in would be that all place kicks between the 20 metre lines have to be kicked forward - ( 20m thingy to allow you hit a free in from the 13 m out on the sideline  to someone behind you) and of course curtail the effin handpass. Any other frees,sidelines hit backwards - free to other team.
This 4 forwards having to stay in the opposition half is silly, impossible to police and what would be the punishment? 

[blewuporstuffed]

This defensive shite is football tumbling to the lowest common denominator where games are low scoring and won by soft frees and/or a mistake leading to a goal. How anyone can argue this is not a serious issue is beyond me.

I agree with you Zulu that it is becominga serious issue, I just dont think a kneejerk rule change like some of those being suggested is the best way to adress it.
If a rule change is to be introduced it needs to have all the implications well thought through, not just something that adresses the current issue and creates a different one.

[Zulu]

Ah I know what you're saying AZ and I agree I'm just pointing out that we shouldn't wait until you can see the numbers dropping.

I too see both sides insofar as good defending is an essential element of football (all sports) but a game where players turn their back on the ball and sprint back to a prearranged position so that you have a mass of bodies there when the ball arrives (if it does at all) will destroy the game. And the thing is, many teams are now using the league to try out different ways of playing but once you get to knockout championship we may well find that most games turn into the worst type of defensive game. How many teams will be willing to risk going for it when they fear if they fall 4 or 5 points behind the other team may well go ultra defensive to hold that lead?

[Zulu]

This defensive shite is football tumbling to the lowest common denominator where games are low scoring and won by soft frees and/or a mistake leading to a goal. How anyone can argue this is not a serious issue is beyond me.

I agree with you Zulu that it is becominga serious issue, I just dont think a kneejerk rule change like some of those being suggested is the best way to adress it.
If a rule change is to be introduced it needs to have all the implications well thought through, not just something that adresses the current issue and creates a different one.

Oh absolutely, I agree. I wouldn't change any rules yet but I do think we need to keep a close eye on this. I thought we might move away from defensive football, or at least some teams would, but there is a fairly clear trend towards all teams now wanting this in their armoury and once they see the other crowd start it they'll copy it and we'll seamer and more utterly unwatchable games. Football shouldn't be a game with a few watchable games, it should be a sport where most games (involving teams of similar standards) are very watchable. How confident are people will see 2-5 great games this summer? And this at a time when Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Donegal, Mayo, Monaghan, Roscommon and Tipperary all have teams as good or better than they've had for a long time.

[Teo Lurley]

The defensive game has been here since 2002. Why are people getting so worked up about it now? There have been some great matches with teams set up defensively. At the moment the weather is shocking, it was awful for Derry v Dublin. Teams can play whatever way they want, get over it.

[blewuporstuffed]

Rather than making 4 forwards be inside the 45 at all times, what about  adding a rule that a team has to have all 6 forwards inside the attacking 45 for oposition kickouts (similar to when the ball is thrown in at the start of the game).
this would eliminate the current tactic of dropping players back immediatly and conceding possesion to the short kickout, and effectivly palying  a  forward(s) as a permanent defender, which is the basis to most of these defensive systems.
While it doesnt stop teams filtering players back eventually, it make its it more difficult to do it, and would also have the effect of encouraging teams to kick it long from the kickout and try and get the ball into the forward line early before players can get back.

This may not work either, just thinking out loud really 

[Zulu]

The defensive game has been here since 2002. Why are people getting so worked up about it now? There have been some great matches with teams set up defensively. At the moment the weather is shocking, it was awful for Derry v Dublin. Teams can play whatever way they want, get over it.

Nonsense. What great games have we had with both teams setting up defensively? And we've had defensive football since the GAA started but we've only recently started seeing teams get all 15 of their players inside their own 45. The weather was fine for last years all Ireland final and for the Dublin Donegal semi a few years ago. Blaming the weather is pure head in the sand stuff.

[twohands!!!]

So you're in favour of it so? And I think you'd find there's a fair bit of football played by people on this board too.

As I said earlier on, from the persepective of winning the games, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

From the perspective of trying to keep our game popular, and keep people wanting to watch and play it, there's a lot wrong with that sort of spectacle.

It's my belief that as soon as the GAA perceive a risk of people walking away from the game as punters or TV viewers, something will change. They'll probably make an arse of it, but they will try to address it.

The crowds for the the hurling championship overtook the crowds for the football championship in 2013 for the first time ever  (the replayed final helped but still the replay in 2012 wasn't enough ) The average gate figure being 25k for a hurling match and 15k for a football match really give a strong indication of what the public are saying. Obviously the hurling championship in that it's has the advantage of having only the top half teams competing, whereas the football championship is handicapped by having the bottom-half teams taking part in it.

The good news is that in a few years the blanket will be great for all these Division 4 and Division 3 teams who have no chance of actually winning anything but are primarily concerned with keeping the margin of their loss down.

The accounts do not incorporate provincial championships but take in qualifiers, All-Ireland quarter-finals, semi-finals and the final.

With €2.8m generated from the hurling replay between Clare and Cork it brought total hurling gate receipts to €11,918,974, a 12pc increase on 2012 and around €50k more than a much greater number of football games yielded. Even with the Kilkenny/Galway replay factored in, 2012 figures for hurling did not surpass football with almost €300,000 in the difference, €10,943,294 for football, €10,649,887 for hurling.

The average attendance for the 15 All-Ireland hurling championship matches played in 2013, attended by 382,338 people, was 25,489 compared to 15,996 for 31 football games attended by a total of 495,889.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/gaa-reap-rewards-of-magical-campaign-29976311.html