Author Topic: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers  (Read 8009 times)

believebelive

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Re: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2006, 08:10:44 PM »
It is hard to make a comment on this as i have not read the book or the chapter in question. And only have sweeny's spin to guide me - something that should be treated with caution in my experience.
I have more respect for this Cork team than i have for other hurling teams knocking about over the past number of years for the very reason that they are not as naturally talented as other teams. It's the precise point that they have to work so hard to succeed that makes them a great team in my opinion.
IMO if other teams had their level of profesionalism they would have probably even been more successful. This Cork team made the absolute maximum of their ability which in my book is the greatest achievement that any team can have in sport.
I think it is too their eternal credit that they have managed to compete in four all ireland finals in a row (hope i'm right on that one) and their battles with Kilkenny over the years have been great IMO - i dont think either of these sides are better than the other - they just have different approaches. 3-2 in all irelands and 2-1 in head to heads hardly demonstrates that Kilkenny are so much more superior. If we took the last four all irelands it is 2-2.

Josey Whales

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Re: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2006, 08:44:47 PM »
Not to labour the point- but i don't think that's what Sweeney is saying. Cork appear to have no recognition that they were a moderately talented team. they appear to believe they operated on a different plane than everybody else skillwise as well as everything else. Credit to them for their professionalism -but they weren't the Kerry team of the 70's.

TBT

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Re: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2006, 11:10:00 PM »
Not to labour the point- but i don't think that's what Sweeney is saying. Cork appear to have no recognition that they were a moderately talented team. they appear to believe they operated on a different plane than everybody else skillwise as well as everything else. Credit to them for their professionalism -but they weren't the Kerry team of the 70's.
This "moderate" side went within one game of the longest winning streak of games in the history of hurling.This "moderate" side reached 4 All Ire finals in a row. Winning one in  a canter, the second one easily. Losing one  when they had  enough chances to win it and losing the last one by a few pts to a side that felt it had to play twleve men in their own half any time any time Cork gained possession
 ::)



Josey Whales

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Re: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2006, 12:02:36 AM »
Also played in one of the poorest eras hurling has ever known. (three teams cork-kilkenny and waterford).
Not their fault admitedly- but it would be nice if they kept a sense of perspective about things. This is hardly a Golden Age of hurling.
Galway and Tipp couldn't go any lower- limerick are in the doldrums- clare-wexford and offaly have been finsihed for some years now and ulster hurling has no challengers.

bottlethrower7

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Re: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2006, 09:08:00 AM »
Not to labour the point- but i don't think that's what Sweeney is saying. Cork appear to have no recognition that they were a moderately talented team. they appear to believe they operated on a different plane than everybody else skillwise as well as everything else. Credit to them for their professionalism -but they weren't the Kerry team of the 70's.

josey, yes, they believed that. But so what. We all have our opinions on it. That they believed that is just part and parcel of how they prepared psychologically for games. I think every year that 2 or 3 teams believe the same thing about themselves. Again, its just spin by Sweeney on something that anyone who ever played the game already knows, and won't be surprised about.

And on the 'golden era' comment. Colombia might chastise me for saying it, but the last 'golden era' involved none of the 'big 3' (yes Colombia, '3'!!). 'Golden Eras' typically refer to the number of teams in with a shout rather than the standard of play. Cork and Kilkenny's all-Irelands in recent years came at a time when the standards being set by those at the top was far better than anything in history. Of course thats my opinion, but I think it hard to argue against the superior fitness levels and preparation that goes into todays game than anytime past.

I don't believe Cork are/were a moderate side. As someone else said, that they achieved the maximum of their potential is the greatest compliment anyone could pay them. As a team they are/were certainly better than the sum of their parts and it didn't matter that they weren't littered with superstars.

One of the most interesting aspects of the hurling championship over the next 2 years will be to see where they go next. Other counties (Tipp and Waterford in particular) will be queuing up to see if they can overtake them in the pecking order (assuming they do go into decline). How they respond and how they cope with the loss of some of their older players will tell us a lot about them.

The Bottom Brick

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Re: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2006, 09:30:03 AM »
Quote
He hasn't a bad word to say about anyone.

Bar Tony Browne and the Waterford hurlers in general, obviously.
33, 35, 47, 48, 52, 07!

believebelive

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Re: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2006, 10:03:41 AM »
Not to labour the point- but i don't think that's what Sweeney is saying.

I never said that Sweeny was saying anything i simply stated that I had not read the book and had only read the extract.
My point was to answer the implication that excellent preparation and athleticism should somehow be less lauded than artistry and natural talent.

TBT

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Re: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2006, 08:16:32 PM »
I think the point corcoran fails to recognise is that in the pantheon of great Cork teams this one is someway down the list. Heavily reliant on 4-5 players. Without their professionalism as they call it- they probably wouldn't have any All-Irelands whereas Kilkenny could probably start training in late june and still win th all-ireland. There are 7/8 Waterford players that a lot of the Cork team couldn't hold a candle to.- that;s the point Sweeney is trying to make.
Nobody is naive to think that teams aren't disparaging in their views on each other in the dressing room. The point Sweeney is making is that Corcoran comes across as very blinkered in his views. He fails to recognise that for all their perceived 'professionalism' they should have won a hell of a lot more. They don't seem to realise Kilkenny have still outscored them in All-Irelands in recent years-relying more on pure artistry rather than atleticism.
This Cork side will go down as the best since the greatest hurling I've ever seen i.e. the 3 in a row side. From 1-9 only Clare can match them in recent times. Cor are a better side than Waterford, full stop. From 1 -9 are a far superior.
The KK stuff  is hilarious. The head to head is 2 each. 99 convienently swpt under thecarpet by Sweeney.KK relying on artistry? Are you bonkers. After the semi final loss to Galway a few yrs ago KK, till this yr,  pushed the aggression and phyicality level through the roof.

Josey Whales

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Re: Eamon Sweeny tackles Big Headed Cork Hurlers
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2006, 12:00:36 AM »
Totally disagree you must be a corkman.
Numbers 3-9 are as good as anything else- 1,2 and 10-15 aren't anywhere near. I wasn't talking about physicality - more athleticism v skill. I think this Cork team was the fittest team in history and played a game that nobody had seen before. But when the opposition copped on like this year they had no plan b. In My view they resembled Clare - great backs and midfield and 2 main scoring forwards (Deane and O Connor) with Corcoran supporting them.
Look i don't dispute that they had some fantastic players- but i'm trying to offer a shred of perspective that Corcoran hasn't. An excellent team but not an all time great one in my view. I don't agre that  all 1-9 are better than waterford. Personally i wouldn't have any in front of Ken  Mc Grath and Browne and Gardiner is a toss up with Eoin Murphy a better player than Mulcahy. Eoin Kelly has more talent than either o connor or kenny but it would depend on what type of game you were going to play to see who you would select. O connor and kenny suit corks gameplan- kelly wouldn't but it doesn't mean he's an inferior player because of it.