New Catholic Church/ DUP coalition! Is this they way forward?

[Oraisteach]

Tony, et al, what happens when individual conscience conflicts with church doctrine?  I always thought that that individual conscience retains primacy when the two were at odds?

[T Fearon]

As long as individual conscience does not lead one into sin or endorsement of same.

[Oraisteach]

So, should you act contrary to your conscience when you do something that you believe to be moral but the church considers sinful.  Say, for example, birth control, which the Church opposes.  Imagine, though, a Third World country, vastly over-populated, where, without birth control, families are churning out children like rabbits, destining them to lives of abject poverty and suffering.  If you lived in that situation and your conscience told you that it was more moral to advocate/promote birth control to save families from a grim future than to uphold the Church's teaching, should you follow your conscience, or ignore it and thereby do something wrong in your view?

[The Iceman]

So, should you act contrary to your conscience when you do something that you believe to be moral but the church considers sinful.  Say, for example, birth control, which the Church opposes.  Imagine, though, a Third World country, vastly over-populated, where, without birth control, families are churning out children like rabbits, destining them to lives of abject poverty and suffering.  If you lived in that situation and your conscience told you that it was more moral to advocate/promote birth control to save families from a grim future than to uphold the Church's teaching, should you follow your conscience, or ignore it and thereby do something wrong in your view?

Would it not make sense to advocate abstinence? No sex outside of marriage maybe?  Too many children - surely no/less sex is the answer?

[Oraisteach]

Veering a little away from my question about conscience, but, Iceman, do you seriously believe that advocating abstinence would work in a Third World country.  It hasn't exactly been a runaway success in the First World.  Heck, even some who have vowed to be celibate have failed to live up to the abstinence standard. 

[T Fearon]

Trouble is you can use your conscience to justify practically anything.As I said as long as you avoid sin.

[The Iceman]

Veering a little away from my question about conscience, but, Iceman, do you seriously believe that advocating abstinence would work in a Third World country.  It hasn't exactly been a runaway success in the First World.  Heck, even some who have vowed to be celibate have failed to live up to the abstinence standard.

Do you want to solve the problem or put a sticking plaster on the symptom?

I don't believe your conscience would tell you to do the latter.

I have not engaged so far on this as Tony is a WUM of the highest order and doing his best to blacklist all Catholics.

[Oraisteach]

Iceman, I think that over-population and starvation is a moral issue, one that ranks way higher than the morality of birth control.  In this scenario, promoting contraception would not only be more than a band-aid solution, it would be effective, as opposed to a doomed attempt to promote abstinence, and additionally it would be more moral, in my view.

Tony, I ask about conscience simply because I always thought that the Church espoused the view that you shouldn't go against your conscience.  In fact, to do so would itself be an occasion of sin.

The purported Catholic-DUP alignment reminds me of Catholics and evangelical Protestants lining up here in the US, inevitably on a couple of hot-button issues, too often ignoring social justice questions, which, for me, constitute the heart of Catholicism, which is why I see a clear divide, a schism, albeit not actual, between two visions of the Church's mission. 

[T Fearon]

Conscience is subjective.Look at loyalist paramilitaries with the mantra "For God and Ulster" thus justifying their indiscriminate Killing sprees.

[Oraisteach]

I understand that, Tony, I'm just asking you as the our de facto Papal Nuncio what the church's teaching is on the primacy of conscience.

I've always been of the simplistic view that anything that elevates human dignity or enhances the human condition is good and anything that diminishes or discriminates is bad, which by a convoluted route returns me to the front desk of Tony's Poyntzpass B & B.

[T Fearon]

For Christians scripture and Church teachings are the supreme authority.

[seafoid]

For Christians scripture and Church teachings are the supreme authority.

Sorry Tony. That sort of thinking is for losers.
Paisley called himself a man of faith but all he wanted was power.
Stephen King, formerly  of HSBC is a priest but he was driven by money. 

[T Fearon]

Still millions of sincere people who abide by scripture though

[muppet]

Still millions of sincere people who abide by scripture though

And millions who don't.

[T Fearon]

I respect the views of the millions who don't ,do you respect the views of the millions who do?