Managers - "outside" versus "inside"

[Hardy]

Mattie Kerrigan (Eastmeath) 1992-1995
Barney Rock (Dublin) 1995-1997
Brendan Lowry (Offaly) 1997–2000
Luke Dempsey (Mullingar resident, Kildare native) 2000–2003
Paidí Ó Sé (Kerry) 2003–2005
Tomás Ó Flatharta (Kerry) 2005–2009
Brendan Hackett (Monaghan) 2009–2010
Pat Flanagan (Offaly) 2010–2013
Paul Bealin (Dublin) 2013–2014
Tom Cribben (Kildare) 2014–

If ever proof was needed that outside managers don't work.

[Croí na hÉireann]

When was the last Westmeath man? I know Dessie Dolan Snr has been a candidate, and I know there's been a fair few backroom guys from Westmeath, like Ollie Keating from Athlone. Actually, maybe the incident between him and Dessie Dolan Jnr is the reason why there's been no Westmeath managers recently

Will have to put the thinking cap on to go back that far. Dessie Dolan Snr not being a candidate would be another sore incident. Will you PM the Keating/Dessie version that made it outside the county?

Mattie Kerrigan (Eastmeath) 1992-1995
Barney Rock (Dublin) 1995-1997
Brendan Lowry (Offaly) 1997–2000
Luke Dempsey (Mullingar resident, Kildare native) 2000–2003
Paidí Ó Sé (Kerry) 2003–2005
Tomás Ó Flatharta (Kerry) 2005–2009
Brendan Hackett (Monaghan) 2009–2010
Pat Flanagan (Offaly) 2010–2013
Paul Bealin (Dublin) 2013–2014
Tom Cribben (Kildare) 2014–

If ever proof was needed that outside managers don't work.

To be fair, the Kerrigan, Lowry, Lukie, Paidí and Ó Flatharta years would be recalled fondly enough. I would advocate getting a Paidí or a Micko in to either re-ignite an underachieving county or to get a talented group over the line. In all other cases you should look within. Hey, at least we're not as bad as the Biffos (trust Breheny to be a master on the subject) http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/the-import-and-export-business-28905488.html

[GalwayBayBoy]

If McIntyre doesn't count in Galway hurling, Loughnane does.

McIntyre definitely counts. Still a Tipp man even though he's been living in Galway for donkey's years.

Not even the first Tipp man over the Galway hurlers. Babs of all people had a spell in charge in the late 70's.

[Syferus]

John Evans restored our faith that outside managers weren't all tools. And he was the one D. Brady called a mercenary too.

[mackers]

The insider only counties so are

Football
Down
Dublin
Kerry
Cork

Although Dublin have Tommy Lyons and Cork have Larry Tompkins, who look a bit questionable

Hurling
Kilkenny
Tipperary
Cork

Down are currently managed by an Armagh man.

[Sidney]

Antrim - Dinny Cahill, Kevin Ryan
Galway - John McIntyre? Although he's naturalised Galway I suppose. Loughnane.
Offaly - Bond, Healy, Cregan, Baker, Babs, Mike McNamara, Tom Fogarty
Laois - Babs? Teddy McCarthy
Kilkenny? probably none, hasn't been an issue for them since 1998 oddly enough.
Wexford - Cyril Farrell, Joachim Kelly, Colm Bonnar. Thought Farrell was more of an advisor than a manager?
Dubs - A few at least, Daly, Cunningham, Humphrey Kelleher, Michael O'Grady

Clare - Len Gaynor, Justin McCarthy
Tipp - none
Cork - none
Waterford - Davey Fitz, McCarthy x 2
Limerick - O'Grady (x2), Pad Joe Whelehan? Justin McCarthy, John Allen, Dave Keane, Noel Drumgoole
Kerry - John Meyler

Down - Sean McGuinness

[magpie seanie]

Was having a chat the other evening with a good friend of mine and he brought up something that Sligo surely has a record that cannot be beaten in. Since 1993 the Sligo senior football team has been managed by Sligo natives a total of only 2.5 years. James Kearins in 2004 I think (which ended with the Tommy Murphy Cup debacle), Tommy Breheny in 2007 (which ended with the Nestor Cup  ) and Breheny did another half a year after the Dom Corrigan "white van sacking."

Can any other county match that record for supporting outside managers?

1994 surely, weren't Laffey and Stenson in charge for that year, then PJ Carroll came in that autumn.

I was hazy about the end of Laffey/Stenson and start of PJ Carroll. I know Carroll definitely managed in 1995 championship when we drew with Galway - the more I think of it you're right. I'd never doubt you anyway.

Regardless it looks like Westmeath have us beaten anyway, a staggering run. We can't even win this one....

[shark]

When was the last Westmeath man? I know Dessie Dolan Snr has been a candidate, and I know there's been a fair few backroom guys from Westmeath, like Ollie Keating from Athlone. Actually, maybe the incident between him and Dessie Dolan Jnr is the reason why there's been no Westmeath managers recently

Will have to put the thinking cap on to go back that far. Dessie Dolan Snr not being a candidate would be another sore incident. Will you PM the Keating/Dessie version that made it outside the county?

Mattie Kerrigan (Eastmeath) 1992-1995
Barney Rock (Dublin) 1995-1997
Brendan Lowry (Offaly) 1997–2000
Luke Dempsey (Mullingar resident, Kildare native) 2000–2003
Paidí Ó Sé (Kerry) 2003–2005
Tomás Ó Flatharta (Kerry) 2005–2009
Brendan Hackett (Monaghan) 2009–2010
Pat Flanagan (Offaly) 2010–2013
Paul Bealin (Dublin) 2013–2014
Tom Cribben (Kildare) 2014–

If ever proof was needed that outside managers don't work.

To be fair, the Kerrigan, Lowry, Lukie, Paidí and Ó Flatharta years would be recalled fondly enough. I would advocate getting a Paidí or a Micko in to either re-ignite an underachieving county or to get a talented group over the line. In all other cases you should look within. Hey, at least we're not as bad as the Biffos (trust Breheny to be a master on the subject) http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/the-import-and-export-business-28905488.html

The Dessie/Keating incident was widely reported at the time (think it was 1999). Keating marked Dessie in a championsip group game (Which Athlone won) and have Dessie a 'hard' time. Dessie quit the county panel, but returned a couple of weeks later.  No big deal.

[twohands!!!]

The insider only counties so are

Football
Down
Dublin
Kerry
Cork

Although Dublin have Tommy Lyons and Cork have Larry Tompkins, who look a bit questionable

Hurling
Kilkenny
Tipperary
Cork

Down are currently managed by an Armagh man.

Updated list

Football
Dublin *
Kerry
Cork *

* Although Dublin have Tommy Lyons and Cork have Larry Tompkins, who look a bit questionable

Hurling
Kilkenny
Tipperary
Cork

So the big question is which will be the next of these teams to go outside the county for a manager?

[muppet]

Yea how do Lyons and Tomkins not count as outsiders?

Brian McDonald lived in Mayo for yonks and was involved in club football, much like Lyons & Tomkins, but he is a Dub. He won an AI with them in the 1950s (1956?).

[johnneycool]

Antrim - Dinny Cahill, Kevin Ryan
Galway - John McIntyre? Although he's naturalised Galway I suppose. Loughnane.
Offaly - Bond, Healy, Cregan, Baker, Babs, Mike McNamara, Tom Fogarty
Laois - Babs? Teddy McCarthy
Kilkenny? probably none, hasn't been an issue for them since 1998 oddly enough.
Wexford - Cyril Farrell, Joachim Kelly, Colm Bonnar. Thought Farrell was more of an advisor than a manager?
Dubs - A few at least, Daly, Cunningham, Humphrey Kelleher, Michael O'Grady

Clare - Len Gaynor, Justin McCarthy
Tipp - none
Cork - Joe McGrath (Down)
Waterford - Davey Fitz, McCarthy x 2
Limerick - O'Grady (x2), Pad Joe Whelehan? Justin McCarthy, John Allen, Dave Keane, Noel Drumgoole
Kerry - John Meyler

Down - Sean McGuinness, John Crossey, Jimmy O'Reilly, Jingo McKernan and the two current Mickeys.

Hard to believe, but Joe McGrath who managed Cork in the 70's was born in Co. Down.

[Croí na hÉireann]

The Dessie/Keating incident was widely reported at the time (think it was 1999). Keating marked Dessie in a championsip group game (Which Athlone won) and have Dessie a 'hard' time. Dessie quit the county panel, but returned a couple of weeks later.  No big deal.

Didn't realise it was widely reported although it would make perfect sense if it was 99 as spent most of that year abroad. Amazing the difference in 16 years, media wise.

[twohands!!!]

Yea how do Lyons and Tomkins not count as outsiders?

Brian McDonald lived in Mayo for and was involved in club football, much like Lyons & Tomkins, but he is a Dub. He won an AI with them in the 1950s (1956?).

Definitely debatable

I suppose Tompkins did line out for Kildare as well as Cork so at best he's in the blow-in category. However crazy as it seems when he was Cork manager he didnt seem like an outsider (probably because he had played with Cork so recently) and also because he lasted much longer than outsiders normally. I think the fact that he played with Cork dilute his "outsider" status a fair bit. I know that doesn't make a whole lot of sense as an argument though.

Lyons I think played all his football in Dublin (have a notion he moved there as a very young lad) and I think the only thing he did football-wise outside Dublin was manage Offaly for 3 years before he managed Dublin - pretty sure he never faced Dublin in the championship when he was over Offaly.

Don't know anything about the Brian MacDonald lad - did he manage Dublin or Mayo? Mayo won in 50 and 51 while Dublin won in 58

[muppet]

Yea how do Lyons and Tomkins not count as outsiders?

Brian McDonald lived in Mayo for and was involved in club football, much like Lyons & Tomkins, but he is a Dub. He won an AI with them in the 1950s (1956?).

Definitely debatable

I suppose Tompkins did line out for Kildare as well as Cork so at best he's in the blow-in category. However crazy as it seems when he was Cork manager he didnt seem like an outsider (probably because he had played with Cork so recently) and also because he lasted much longer than outsiders normally. I think the fact that he played with Cork dilute his "outsider" status a fair bit. I know that doesn't make a whole lot of sense as an argument though.

Lyons I think played all his football in Dublin (have a notion he moved there as a very young lad) and I think the only thing he did football-wise outside Dublin was manage Offaly for 3 years before he managed Dublin - pretty sure he never faced Dublin in the championship when he was over Offaly.

Don't know anything about the Brian MacDonald lad - did he manage Dublin or Mayo? Mayo won in 50 and 51 while Dublin won in 58

Managed Mayo. Won an All-Ireland with the Dubs, could have been 1958 alright.

[twohands!!!]

So basically it's Kerry in the football and Kilkenny and Tipp in the hurling.