The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[Oraisteach]

We are all sinners, Tony, all of us, including you.  How dare you arrogantly dismiss the very Catholic concept of informed conscience.  Seems to me that you are veering very close to the Deadly Sin of pride.  I'd suggest a trip to the confessional, though in your case it would do no good since you feel no remorse.  Irritated (your goal achieved) by your tirade banishing Yes-voting Catholics from church attendance, I broached it with a priest I know who found your pronouncement absurd, devoid of the compassion that Jesus exemplified. But this will affect you not a whit since as you've shown throughout this thread and others, you are more aware of Church doctrine than even Pope Francis.  If you truly care about others' salvation, which I don't believe, you should be welcoming people to the church, not driving them away. 

[T Fearon]

I'm sorry,I'm not arrogant,but I simply cannot see how you can use your conscience to by pass a very simple concept that is scriptural disapproval of homosexuality. If you can use the conscience excuse what is the point of the Ten Commandments etc?

Now all sinners struggling with sin should be welcomed and assisted by the Church,particularly in their efforts to repent and turn away from sin,but constitutionally endorsing sin is certainly not right.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Tony why do you gamble if the Bible says that it is wrong?

[stew]

The hypocrisy on this board defies belief, no one is allowed to question any facet of the gay community (well they can but they are homophobic!!) yet people here can quite happily lambaste and berate a whole religious order because of the actions of a minority.  For all those patting Irish society on the back for standing up for one section of the Irish community whilst attacking another section of the Irish community you should all hold your heads in shame.

Well said, if you were a no vote you tend to get treated like shite, on here is a good indicator of that.

I believe all people should be treated equally and am neither happy about the result or sad because of it, the people have spoken on a matter that has tremendous social impact on the country and we must all now accept the decision and move on.

[T Fearon]

Gambling isn't a sin so long as it is done in moderation.

[stew]

We are all sinners, Tony, all of us, including you.  How dare you arrogantly dismiss the very Catholic concept of informed conscience.  Seems to me that you are veering very close to the Deadly Sin of pride.  I'd suggest a trip to the confessional, though in your case it would do no good since you feel no remorse.  Irritated (your goal achieved) by your tirade banishing Yes-voting Catholics from church attendance, I broached it with a priest I know who found your pronouncement absurd, devoid of the compassion that Jesus exemplified. But this will affect you not a whit since as you've shown throughout this thread and others, you are more aware of Church doctrine than even Pope Francis.  If you truly care about others' salvation, which I don't believe, you should be welcoming people to the church, not driving them away.

Orais I would have a lot of time for you but f**k me people are entitled to their opinions, your vote was a winning one so stop bashing a no voter and celebrate the fact that gays in the country now have the same rights as straight people!

[muppet]

I'm sorry,I'm not arrogant,but I simply cannot see how you can use your conscience to by pass a very simple concept that is scriptural disapproval of homosexuality. If you can use the conscience excuse what is the point of the Ten Commandments etc?

Now all sinners struggling with sin should be welcomed and assisted by the Church,particularly in their efforts to repent and turn away from sin,but constitutionally endorsing sin is certainly not right.

Which Commandment bans homosexuality?

[stew]

I'm sorry,I'm not arrogant,but I simply cannot see how you can use your conscience to by pass a very simple concept that is scriptural disapproval of homosexuality. If you can use the conscience excuse what is the point of the Ten Commandments etc?

Now all sinners struggling with sin should be welcomed and assisted by the Church,particularly in their efforts to repent and turn away from sin,but constitutionally endorsing sin is certainly not right.

Which Commandment bans homosexuality?

The 11th one, unfortunately that tit Moses dropped the fecking evidence! 

[T Fearon]

Muppet I'm trying to point out scriptural references to sin and the fact that if you can use your conscience to transform sin into non sin what is the point of the Ten Commandments

[mikehunt]

The hypocrisy on this board defies belief, no one is allowed to question any facet of the gay community (well they can but they are homophobic!!) yet people here can quite happily lambaste and berate a whole religious order because of the actions of a minority.  For all those patting Irish society on the back for standing up for one section of the Irish community whilst attacking another section of the Irish community you should all hold your heads in shame.

I think they call them illiberal liberals. Self righteousness of a few on this board is nauseating. Not that I voted no but the treatment of the no vote side in the media has been very hypocritical.  Promoting tolerance while being intolerant of anyone who does not agree with them.

[michaelg]

Gambling isn't a sin so long as it is done in moderation.

Can you provide scriptural evidence of this?

[muppet]

Muppet I'm trying to point out scriptural references to sin and the fact that if you can use your conscience to transform sin into non sin what is the point of the Ten Commandments

....and show us where Scripture says homosexuality is a sin.

The Church told us for 1,500 years that the Sun went around the Earth. Were all the people who knew they were wrong sinners before they copped on.

[Tubberman]

Muppet I'm trying to point out scriptural references to sin and the fact that if you can use your conscience to transform sin into non sin what is the point of the Ten Commandments

....and show us where Scripture says homosexuality is a sin.

The Church told us for 1,500 years that the Sun went around the Earth. Were all the people who knew they were wrong sinners before they copped on.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2UytwNXpglU

[T Fearon]

http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html

The Bible says this,the Church is only repeating what the Bible says

[Oraisteach]

Stew, I welcome diverse opinions. They get people thinking.  For example, I believe that the Harps are and will remain the second best football team in the city of Armagh, but I know that many of a blue hue might think otherwise.  What gets up my nose like a wire toilet brush about Tony's views is their holier-than-thou ness, that he is the keeper of the Rosetta Stone of right and wrong.  His positions are unbending, inflexible, devoid of compassion, and, in my view, fundamentalist Catholic but decidedly un-Christian. But when he makes outlandish statements that Catholics who follow an informed conscience should be banned from church, that priests who waver from his straitjacket rules of orthodoxy should be excommunicated, that children are better off warehoused in an orphanage than in a loving home of a same-sex couple, then he needs to be challenged. 

His is an easy world of black and white.  Mine tends to be grey.  He speaks in absolutes, more suited to a blinkered Bible-Belt evangelical than one who wrestles with ambiguity.  Like a child, he wants rules not only for himself but that he can impose on others.  He shows disdain for conscience and Moses-like  holds up the Ten Commandments as absolutes.  OK, let's take number 5, Thou Shalt Not Kill. Clear? As soapy water.  Self defense OK? Capital Punishment? Not in my view.  A Just War, perhaps.  The church provides general principles, but life throws up nuance, the applied physics of conscience.  Tony would have me bogged down in the first level of moral development.

So, Up the Ogs, actually the Cuchulainns.