The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[AZOffaly]

Can someone in the yes camp clarify if they believe that there are any reasons for voting no other than being a rampant homophobe?

I dont have a vote but would in all likelihood be a yes voter.

On this board everyone is entitled to an opinion unless that opinion is different to the herd and then you are homophobic.

Well . . . Yes!

You are voting to deny homosexuals equal rights to everyone else/

Definition of homophobia

homo|pho¦bia
Pronunciation: /ˌhɒməˈfəʊbɪə/  /ˌhəʊmə-/
Definition of homophobia in English:
noun
Dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

I think that a lot of people are getting overly pushed on the definition of homophobia and think it means you abuse or hate homosexuals or its something akin to racism when I don't think it is and has more layers than that. A dislike of homosexuals is the dictionary definition and I think that generally those voting no have that.

What Rights?!?!?

[AZOffaly]

Caveat. We are asking the people who have voted in Fine Gael and Fianna Fail ad infinitum to decide. Is it still a good thing?

[screenexile]

Can someone in the yes camp clarify if they believe that there are any reasons for voting no other than being a rampant homophobe?

I dont have a vote but would in all likelihood be a yes voter.

On this board everyone is entitled to an opinion unless that opinion is different to the herd and then you are homophobic.

Well . . . Yes!

You are voting to deny homosexuals equal rights to everyone else/

Definition of homophobia

homo|pho¦bia
Pronunciation: /ˌhɒməˈfəʊbɪə/  /ˌhəʊmə-/
Definition of homophobia in English:
noun
Dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

I think that a lot of people are getting overly pushed on the definition of homophobia and think it means you abuse or hate homosexuals or its something akin to racism when I don't think it is and has more layers than that. A dislike of homosexuals is the dictionary definition and I think that generally those voting no have that.

What Rights?!?!?

The right to marry the person you love?

[AZOffaly]

As opposed to the right to be in a civil partnership with the person you love? Is it really boiling down to that?

[screenexile]

As opposed to the right to be in a civil partnership with the person you love? Is it really boiling down to that?

That's what it is for me anyway I think you should be able to marry the person you love and have that recognised by the constitution.

Also Civil Partnership between a same sex couple can be amended/taken away by a vote in the Oireachtas while a yes vote will mean this can only be decided by the people of Ireland.

This is quite an interesting Q&A as delivered by the NEUTRAL Referendum Commission Chairman who explains the whole situation succinctly!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/marriage-referendum-q-a-what-you-need-to-know-1.2212840

[AZOffaly]

Where is that screen?

[armaghniac]

Fair play armaghniac for at least trying to come back with an answer. It's very wishy washy though and I'm not buying it I'm afraid!

1. Marriage "is understood as having a strong association with children". Of course that is true for heterosexual couples who wish to conceive children but already there are couples who get married with no intention of having children and those that are unable to conceive for whatever reason so what separates them from a Gay couple in terms of the children point (which is moot in the first place as although marriage is understood to be associated with children, legally there is no such association).

There is a difference between an impossibility for a group of people and some individuals choosing not to do something. Some women do not choose to become pregnant. No man becomes pregnant.

2. You have identified that while some marriages won't be affected some will and then went on to explain something about the welfare system which I'm not really ... HOW will these marriages be affected is more the question I was looking the answer for!! Will there be less marriages/More marriages/more divorce? What is the symptom for Marriage as a whole should Gay people be allowed to wed?

There may be less marriage and more divorce and more children not being brought up by married parents. Now somebody will pipe up and say that this already happens, the divorce can be the best thing in some cases and so on. This does already happen and divorce is sometimes the only option, but you want as little of it as possible all the same.

[screenexile]

Where is that screen?

Sorry forgot to paste the link I've amended it above as well:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/marriage-referendum-q-a-what-you-need-to-know-1.2212840

[topcuppla]

As opposed to the right to be in a civil partnership with the person you love? Is it really boiling down to that?

That's what it is for me anyway I think you should be able to marry the person you love and have that recognised by the constitution.

What if you love your sister?

[easytiger95]

No, someone may pipe up and say, what is the causal link between same sex marriage and divorce in heterosexual marriage?

And someone else might say, there is absolutely none.

[AZOffaly]

Where is that screen?

Sorry forgot to paste the link I've amended it above as well:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/marriage-referendum-q-a-what-you-need-to-know-1.2212840

Thanks screen, and that is probably the best I've seen of that. I still wish someone would just simply list the 21 differences between Civil Partnership and Marriage, so we can all clearly see the inequality, but this is pretty good. I hadn't thought of enshrining it in the constitution as opposed to simply having legislation. Legislation can change easier than the Constitution, so that in itself is worth noting.

In terms of the actual differences though, I now have 3 I think...

1 - Adopting in 3 years versus immediately.
2 - Status of the home, and how it relates to children of an ended relationship
3 - Constitutional protection versus Legislatively 'granted'.

[armaghniac]

No, someone may pipe up and say, what is the causal link between same sex marriage and divorce in heterosexual marriage?

And someone else might say, there is absolutely none.

What are you claiming here? That a redefinition of marriage is not likely to affect the divorce rate or that this particular redefinition does not affect the divorce rate?

1 - Adopting in 3 years versus immediately.
2 - Status of the home, and how it relates to children of an ended relationship
3 - Constitutional protection versus Legislatively 'granted'

Marriage is not directly defined in the Constitution now and both groups will have an equal basis in this regard whether or not there is a Yes vote.

[AZOffaly]

That is semantics. You say 'directly' because the family is protected constitutionally. This will allow a gay couple marry and become a 'family'.

[whitey]

If a person is truly bisexual should they be allowed to marry both a man and a woman?

[easytiger95]

No, someone may pipe up and say, what is the causal link between same sex marriage and divorce in heterosexual marriage?

And someone else might say, there is absolutely none.

What are you claiming here? That a redefinition of marriage is not likely to affect the divorce rate or that this particular redefinition does not affect the divorce rate?

1 - Adopting in 3 years versus immediately.
2 - Status of the home, and how it relates to children of an ended relationship
3 - Constitutional protection versus Legislatively 'granted'

Marriage is not directly defined in the Constitution now and both groups will have an equal basis in this regard whether or not there is a Yes vote.

What I'm saying is that same sex marriage will not in anyway effect the divorce rate in heterosexual couples. It was fairly clear in my first post.

Now, if you're saying that same sex marriage will effect the overall divorce rate because they are less likely to stay together, all i can say to that is that we don't know what the divorce rate in same sex couples will be because we haven't allowed them to marry.

Marriage is directly defined in the constitution. you should try reading it some time.