The GAA Rat Race

[twohands!!!]

There appears to be qute a lot of people on here talking a seriuous load of horse. On every [of the numerous] threads there has been on here about burnout I have asked for any evidence to show that players are leaving rthe game earlier than they did in the past. No one has as yet been ebale to furnish me with this evidence. I suspect that this is because it doesn't exist. Benny Coulter retiring at age 34??? after a 16 or 17 year career at senior county level is not evidence of 'burnout', I would argue that its quite the reverse.

Looking at the teams in this years AI SFC final as an example it doesnt strike me they were composed of a much younger age group than any previous group of players, and some of teir better performers have huge numbers in terms of championship appearences.

The only one talking out of their arse thus far is you.

This professional training is only in vogue a few years. The likes of Benny would only have seen maybe 5-6 years of it and he's in a better position then any of us to gauge what constitutes too much. As he played at this level.

Inter county commitments has been a 6 day a week event since the late 90s however the key factor is the load factor which is the volume and intensity of training you are doing.

That now is at breaking point. Because it is several higher in terms of intensity these days. You will see more inter county retirements in the next ten years of lads ranging from 25-28 then ever before. The evidence isn't there because the current group are the Test subjects.

Well there's no point in arguing with you then, as not only are you a S&C guru, but you can also tell the future!

Would the fact that so many Down lads have opted not to join the panel this year not be a case of burnout?? Marty Clarke has been working & living as a professional athlete for the last 5 odd years and even he won't commit to it. . . it's gone too far!!

On Marty Clarke - I did hear he has some sort of health condition (can't remember what it was - but it's something that would require managing)

However I agree with the overall point that things have gone too far and SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE !!!!!

I do agree that the ones pushing this are the professional getting paid on a per session basis. I know it would have close to zero chance of getting through Congress, but I'd love to see a rule that all county boards had to provide a detailed list of all payments to any individuals involved in the coaching/management of county teams.

[Keyser soze]

There appears to be qute a lot of people on here talking a seriuous load of horse. On every [of the numerous] threads there has been on here about burnout I have asked for any evidence to show that players are leaving rthe game earlier than they did in the past. No one has as yet been ebale to furnish me with this evidence. I suspect that this is because it doesn't exist. Benny Coulter retiring at age 34??? after a 16 or 17 year career at senior county level is not evidence of 'burnout', I would argue that its quite the reverse.

Looking at the teams in this years AI SFC final as an example it doesnt strike me they were composed of a much younger age group than any previous group of players, and some of teir better performers have huge numbers in terms of championship appearences.

The only one talking out of their arse thus far is you.

This professional training is only in vogue a few years. The likes of Benny would only have seen maybe 5-6 years of it and he's in a better position then any of us to gauge what constitutes too much. As he played at this level.

Inter county commitments has been a 6 day a week event since the late 90s however the key factor is the load factor which is the volume and intensity of training you are doing.

That now is at breaking point. Because it is several higher in terms of intensity these days. You will see more inter county retirements in the next ten years of lads ranging from 25-28 then ever before. The evidence isn't there because the current group are the Test subjects.

Well there's no point in arguing with you then, as not only are you a S&C guru, but you can also tell the future!

I'm not an S&C guru or anything remotely like it.

Secondly it's not my fault you made a silly point above. You're like the head honchos in the GAA - see no evil hear no evil.

I'm not predicting anything when it's already happening. The human body isn't designed to train 7 times a week at current intensity levels and hold down a full time job.

You don't need to be a guru to know that. But maybe you're Geezer in disguise

Which point did I make that was silly? And if it's already happening what is the evidence of this?

[manfromdelmonte]

I would argue that most of this desire for more training sessions comes from players
Players want to win stuff. If that means (in their heads) going back training in December for the following season then they are prepared to do it.

also, most players cannot be trusted to do their own work over the winter (according to club managers) and so a lot of clubs try to keep a squad of lads going over the winter, when really what some of them need is a break for injury prevention, or a change or focus in training.
how many clubs have ever thought about putting up a few handball courts inside a club hall and letting lads play handball for the winter to stay in shape?
or run circuit classes where the focus is on flexibility and injury prevention?

[illdecide]

I was talking to a club player (intermediate level) on Fri evening there and he was getting ready for a fitness test that evening for his club...WTF. A fitness test in November? the league starts in 6 months!!! that's actually (IMO) uncalled for this time of the year.
Players should be keeping themselves in decent shape over the winter and training should be started in late Jan or early Feb, are club managers now trying to copy county teams? (guys need their heads looked at)

[Down Follower]

How often would an amateur swimmer train and what hours would they train?
How often would an amateur runner train and for how long?
How often does a gym monkey spend in the gym every week?

Any of the above would likely see more time than a GAA player.  The difference comes when you are told when and where you must train.  A GAA player could do 6 days a week no problem if it meant being able to do it at your own time of the day, in your own gym or field. As a team game though it simply has to take place mostly within the team environment. In that instance, 6 days a week becomes unworkable for an amateur.

[Brick Tamlin]

Chairmen and committees need their heads looked at. They sanction the bullshit.
If clubs would spend the money developing their own people as coaches and investing in youth it would be more their line.
Educate the coaches/mentors, provide higher standard of coaching and development, produce better players and teams.

[DennistheMenace]

Clubs training now for a season that kicks of in April is absolutely mind boggling.

Coaches, Managers receiving £100-200 a week are motivated by exactly that while asking for 100% commitment in training 4/5 times a week. Gym sessions, weights sessions, conditioning, less ball work, social aspect out the window with drinks bans for months. Some change in the game in the last decade and not for the better in my opinion.

[tonto1888]

No they don't.

aye we do

[Keyser soze]

My club, who are senior, are doing a wee weights programme over the winter, no biggie. The training demands havent changed that much over the past few years as far as I can see. Players are maybe expected to get time off work for a thurs/fri night championship match and maybe a training weekend once or twice a year but in general they don't train more often or more intensively than they did before. there 's always some eejit who will be wanting to do a 6am session 3 times a week but sure....

The type of training has changed as well to reflect the changing physical aspect of the game but to say that the workload is more intense, well i don't know about that. It's more focussed certainly but running for miles uphill in a few inches of shite, trailing a big tyre, wasnt exactly easy. It might well have been the completely wrong thing to do but it was as hard, if not harder and a lot more tiring, as any training todays players do, and I know this for a fact as Ive done both types.

Every generation of players thinks they're better/harder/faster/more skillful/more committed/better trained/smarter than the ones preceding it, and as they say, paper never refused ink. I would hazard that there are similar articles like this written in every decade since Gaelic football/hurling started.

[twohands!!!]

Chairmen and committees need their heads looked at. They sanction the bullshit.
If clubs would spend the money developing their own people as coaches and investing in youth it would be more their line.
Educate the coaches/mentors, provide higher standard of coaching and development, produce better players and teams.

The thing is that when you hear about clubs paying lads hundreds of Euro to manage/coach/train teams, lads doing it for free feel foolish.

You see countless lads who put in countless hours in clubs and never getting a penny and then you see parasites getting paid ridiculous amounts because they have a a reputation or have some certificate in coaching to their name.

I'd be very interested to know have the revenue ever compiled a list of club and county managers and had a bit of a look at how tax compliant they all were. The reason I ask is that I always remember Mick O'Dwyer's defence when anyone mentioned payments to managers was that he had been audited by the Revenue a number of times and they had no problem with him. Of course this was a very slick defence because when people heard him say he was in good standing with the Revenue they assumed all was kosher even though being square with the Revenue  would only mean he had paid taxes on his earnings, not that he hadn't received any earnings or was complying with the GAA's rules on payments. Any reasonable accountant would have no problem making sure that any extra payments on top of mileage allowance were fully tax compliant no matter how large they were.

I'd love to see a rule that said the same rules apply to managers and coaches as apply to players - you have to be a member of a club and if you want to transfer between clubs the same rules as for players apply. Rather than lining these expensive managers/coaches, think about how much more money clubs would have on spending on improving facilities/providing gear for underage teams.

[INDIANA]

How often would an amateur swimmer train and what hours would they train?
How often would an amateur runner train and for how long?
How often does a gym monkey spend in the gym every week?

Any of the above would likely see more time than a GAA player.  The difference comes when you are told when and where you must train.  A GAA player could do 6 days a week no problem if it meant being able to do it at your own time of the day, in your own gym or field. As a team game though it simply has to take place mostly within the team environment. In that instance, 6 days a week becomes unworkable for an amateur.

I read these posts and I just yawn ........
Swimming is a non weight bearing exercise comparing it to GAA is like comparing tag rugby to professional rugby.
Load factor !

[INDIANA]

My club, who are senior, are doing a wee weights programme over the winter, no biggie. The training demands havent changed that much over the past few years as far as I can see. Players are maybe expected to get time off work for a thurs/fri night championship match and maybe a training weekend once or twice a year but in general they don't train more often or more intensively than they did before. there 's always some eejit who will be wanting to do a 6am session 3 times a week but sure....

The type of training has changed as well to reflect the changing physical aspect of the game but to say that the workload is more intense, well i don't know about that. It's more focussed certainly but running for miles uphill in a few inches of shite, trailing a big tyre, wasnt exactly easy. It might well have been the completely wrong thing to do but it was as hard, if not harder and a lot more tiring, as any training todays players do, and I know this for a fact as Ive done both types.

Every generation of players thinks they're better/harder/faster/more skillful/more committed/better trained/smarter than the ones preceding it, and as they say, paper never refused ink. I would hazard that there are similar articles like this written in every decade since Gaelic football/hurling started.

The current generation are the best athletes to play the game. That's a statistical fact.

The speed of the game is unparalleled . It takes longer to recover from a match . If a player plays for a number of teams and had to train with all of them he burns out very quickly

It's very simple. The current structure is unsustainable and comparing it to non weight bearing sports, amateur runners or otherwise really is bizarre.

[Bingo]

Indiana,

I think the point on the individual, amateur sports people is valid to a certain extent. They enjoy the flexibility in their training that a team or GAA player won't.
While a lot do train collectively, its not the be all and end all if they don't and many often don't.

This gives them far less mental pressure to fit all in round collective sessions. A swimmer or runner, can push a session out by a hour to fuel himself or to fit a family event in or if he has to work late. A GAA player won't have this luxury.

A swimmer, weightlifter or runner will know months and months in advance what races they will be doing and can plan accordingly, peaking when they have to. A club player mightn't know when the next match is or that if he starts training in January when the championship will be.

[Keyser soze]

My club, who are senior, are doing a wee weights programme over the winter, no biggie. The training demands havent changed that much over the past few years as far as I can see. Players are maybe expected to get time off work for a thurs/fri night championship match and maybe a training weekend once or twice a year but in general they don't train more often or more intensively than they did before. there 's always some eejit who will be wanting to do a 6am session 3 times a week but sure....

The type of training has changed as well to reflect the changing physical aspect of the game but to say that the workload is more intense, well i don't know about that. It's more focussed certainly but running for miles uphill in a few inches of shite, trailing a big tyre, wasnt exactly easy. It might well have been the completely wrong thing to do but it was as hard, if not harder and a lot more tiring, as any training todays players do, and I know this for a fact as Ive done both types.

Every generation of players thinks they're better/harder/faster/more skillful/more committed/better trained/smarter than the ones preceding it, and as they say, paper never refused ink. I would hazard that there are similar articles like this written in every decade since Gaelic football/hurling started.

The current generation are the best athletes to play the game. That's a statistical fact.

The speed of the game is unparalleled . It takes longer to recover from a match . If a player plays for a number of teams and had to train with all of them he burns out very quickly

It's very simple. The current structure is unsustainable and comparing it to non weight bearing sports, amateur runners or otherwise really is bizarre.

The evidence I have offered is anecdotal, and I haven't claimed anything different. 

You on the other hand are making grand pronouncements, [as indeed have many other commentators such as the author of the piece that inspired this thread], and then proclaiming them as fact!!!

Can you provide one single piece of empirical evidence to back up any of the statements you have made above???  [not that I disagree with everything you have said.]

[INDIANA]

My club, who are senior, are doing a wee weights programme over the winter, no biggie. The training demands havent changed that much over the past few years as far as I can see. Players are maybe expected to get time off work for a thurs/fri night championship match and maybe a training weekend once or twice a year but in general they don't train more often or more intensively than they did before. there 's always some eejit who will be wanting to do a 6am session 3 times a week but sure....

The type of training has changed as well to reflect the changing physical aspect of the game but to say that the workload is more intense, well i don't know about that. It's more focussed certainly but running for miles uphill in a few inches of shite, trailing a big tyre, wasnt exactly easy. It might well have been the completely wrong thing to do but it was as hard, if not harder and a lot more tiring, as any training todays players do, and I know this for a fact as Ive done both types.

Every generation of players thinks they're better/harder/faster/more skillful/more committed/better trained/smarter than the ones preceding it, and as they say, paper never refused ink. I would hazard that there are similar articles like this written in every decade since Gaelic football/hurling started.

The current generation are the best athletes to play the game. That's a statistical fact.

The speed of the game is unparalleled . It takes longer to recover from a match . If a player plays for a number of teams and had to train with all of them he burns out very quickly

It's very simple. The current structure is unsustainable and comparing it to non weight bearing sports, amateur runners or otherwise really is bizarre.

The evidence I have offered is anecdotal, and I haven't claimed anything different. 

You on the other hand are making grand pronouncements, [as indeed have many other commentators such as the author of the piece that inspired this thread], and then proclaiming them as fact!!!

Can you provide one single piece of empirical evidence to back up any of the statements you have made above???  [not that I disagree with everything you have said.]

Empirical evidence of ?