Author Topic: Ashers cake controversy.  (Read 42666 times)

HiMucker

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #570 on: October 11, 2018, 12:31:10 PM »
A sordid campaign according to you. You let the mask slip there a bit, but sure nothing to do with God or your beliefs....


Took the words out of my mouth
I believe that a campaign to undermine marriage, a fundamental building block of human society, is sordid.
God didn't tell me that.
If it's a fundamental building block of human society, why deny it to gay couples?

Why deny it to someone  and their mother?
Yeah because that's the same thing  ::) Tell me is there a significant number of people hiding in the closet who want to get off with their son/mother/father/daughter? Are they meeting up in underground nightclubs with other mother and son couples? What part of Armagh are you from  ;D. Here do us all a favour and stick your mask back on and spare us your homophobic bile dressed up as pseudo religious waffle.

HiMucker

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #571 on: October 11, 2018, 12:33:10 PM »
A sordid campaign according to you. You let the mask slip there a bit, but sure nothing to do with God or your beliefs....


Took the words out of my mouth

I believe that a campaign to undermine marriage, a fundamental building block of human society, is sordid.
God didn't tell me that.
If it's a fundamental building block of human society, why deny it to gay couples?

Why deny it to someone  and their mother?
The mother took the order, the son overruled her later.
Your giving him too much credit. That's not what he is referring to. If only.

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #572 on: October 11, 2018, 12:33:40 PM »
I thought it hilarious that the company involved actually thanked god after the ruling

as if a celestial dictator had anything to do with a point of law!

armaghniac

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #573 on: October 11, 2018, 12:45:05 PM »
Why deny it to someone  and their mother?
Yeah because that's the same thing  ::) Tell me is there a significant number of people hiding in the closet who want to get off with their son/mother/father/daughter? Are they meeting up in underground nightclubs with other mother and son couples? What part of Armagh are you from  ;D.

There are some, the exact number is not the point. 

Quote
Here do us all a favour and stick your mask back on and spare us your homophobic bile dressed up as pseudo religious waffle.

Ah yes, the usual resort to abuse, a clear sign that your argument does not stand on its own merit.
Incidentally, which point did I make that was "pseudo religious"?

if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

HiMucker

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #574 on: October 11, 2018, 12:54:37 PM »
You think being gay is immoral. There is no point beating around the bush, pardon the pun. I don't think that sort of view deserves the credibility of an indepth debate, others can knock themselves out. I was hardly abusive, I called your views for what they are.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 02:09:21 PM by HiMucker »

Orior

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #575 on: October 11, 2018, 01:42:33 PM »
I thought it hilarious that the company involved actually thanked god after the ruling

as if a celestial dictator had anything to do with a point of law!

I found that quite funny too. God only sides with the ones that pay their Tithes, and doesn't care too much for sinners.
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

trailer

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #576 on: October 11, 2018, 02:20:19 PM »
Why deny it to someone  and their mother?
Yeah because that's the same thing  ::) Tell me is there a significant number of people hiding in the closet who want to get off with their son/mother/father/daughter? Are they meeting up in underground nightclubs with other mother and son couples? What part of Armagh are you from  ;D.

There are some, the exact number is not the point. 

Quote
Here do us all a favour and stick your mask back on and spare us your homophobic bile dressed up as pseudo religious waffle.

Ah yes, the usual resort to abuse, a clear sign that your argument does not stand on its own merit.
Incidentally, which point did I make that was "pseudo religious"?

Wow. This incestuous line is a smokescreen.
Incest is unlawful as it can lead to defects in reproduction and is dangerous for the children. This is widely known.
Underage sex or marriage is also outlawed as one or both of the parties involved may not be of a mature age to make and informed decision.
None of these can be translated to reason for the banning of gay marriage.

Do you know where the concept of marriage came from? Do you understand the concept? And it's background? And why it is still used today?
You are terribly vocal on a subject you seem to be so poorly informed on. Very sad.

tonto1888

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #577 on: October 11, 2018, 02:49:50 PM »
A sordid campaign according to you. You let the mask slip there a bit, but sure nothing to do with God or your beliefs....


Took the words out of my mouth

I believe that a campaign to undermine marriage, a fundamental building block of human society, is sordid.
God didn't tell me that.
If it's a fundamental building block of human society, why deny it to gay couples?

Why deny it to someone  and their mother?

You like  to deflect donít you.

armaghniac

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #578 on: October 11, 2018, 03:15:34 PM »
You think being gay is immoral. There is no point beating around the bush, pardon the pun. I don't think that sort of view deserves the credibility of an indepth debate, others can knock themselves out. I was hardly abusive, I called your views for what they are.

No doubt with a similar lack of evidence I can say that you are motivated by the devil himself.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

David McKeown

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #579 on: October 11, 2018, 08:50:17 PM »
Any business has the right to refuse to do a bespoke job. It happens all the time. Its not discrimination*.

No business has the right to refuse someone an existing item based on that person's creed or sexual orientation.


Pretty straightforward to me - not at all surprised that the legal system seen fit to line their pockets to the tune of >£500k in meandering to that conclusion.



*Here, Charles Hurst - I want a new ferrari that is painted black with pink dots for 20p. What do you mean you aren't going to do that? DISCRIMINATION!!!! Whats the equality commission's number?

Not the conclusion they arrived at though.

Main Street

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #580 on: October 11, 2018, 10:51:40 PM »
Any business has the right to refuse to do a bespoke job. It happens all the time. Its not discrimination*.

No business has the right to refuse someone an existing item based on that person's creed or sexual orientation.


Pretty straightforward to me - not at all surprised that the legal system seen fit to line their pockets to the tune of >£500k in meandering to that conclusion.



*Here, Charles Hurst - I want a new ferrari that is painted black with pink dots for 20p. What do you mean you aren't going to do that? DISCRIMINATION!!!! Whats the equality commission's number?

Not the conclusion they arrived at though.
However its a close enough (flexible) interpretation of the 5 judges' opinion as to not worth an objection.
Belfast telegraph
"Ashers bakery, did not discriminate against him because of his sexual orientation, but refused his order because of their deeply held objection to the message."

David McKeown

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #581 on: October 12, 2018, 12:18:34 AM »
Yes but if you read the judgement the ratio is more clearly the lower court erred on how widely they interpreted dissociable discrimination. On the facts of this case Mr Lee was not discriminated against on the basis of his sexuality or political opinion.

It stopped well short of saying any business has the right to refuse a bespoke job and such an interpretation is not close enough to describe current anti discrimination law.

macdanger2

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #582 on: October 12, 2018, 09:21:02 AM »
Yes but if you read the judgement the ratio is more clearly the lower court erred on how widely they interpreted dissociable discrimination. On the facts of this case Mr Lee was not discriminated against on the basis of his sexuality or political opinion.

It stopped well short of saying any business has the right to refuse a bespoke job and such an interpretation is not close enough to describe current anti discrimination law.

Could you explain what "dissociable discrimination" means? Thanks in advance

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #583 on: October 12, 2018, 09:46:12 AM »
Not the conclusion they arrived at though.

<sigh> I know.

Why make a statement that makes things clear and obvious to all when there is further money to be gleamed from the taxpayer?
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RadioGAAGAA

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #584 on: October 12, 2018, 09:51:38 AM »
It stopped well short of saying any business has the right to refuse a bespoke job

Any business DOES have the right to refuse to do a bespoke job! It happens every day across the world.

How the court didn't just say that this is an instance of that I don't know. Instead they've left things vague and already I see a bad interpretation of it being applied in an attempt at reciprocity.



[I'm kinda amazed that you are even suggesting that any customer can demand a business perform a dedicated/bespoke piece of work for them - even if that business has no wish to perform the work.]
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