Colm O'Rourke vs. the GPA

[Hardy]

What do non County Club players actually want?
( as opposed to GAAboarders moaning about the ICGPA).

Noted Croì

I'd suggest they want a defined club calendar where holidays and other milestones can be planned - not one drafted in January which everyone knows won't be adhered to.

A shorter IC season and less power for IC managers to effectively cancel the club championships until the IC season is over.

A kick in the ass for ineffective CCC's that can't run off Championships even when their IC team was knocked out months earlier.

All of the above are matters that can be resolved by the GAA with a bit of will and common sense.
Mind you most County Senior teams' seasons are ended by around 10th July so that's surely short enough for them to have county finals played before 1st October.
Inter County managers have no official powers - Co Boards accede to their requests to postpone Club games.

Restricting eligibilities, downgrading third level college games to being a nice diversion from studies, designated weekends one per month in May/June/July/Aug for Club championship games only, shorter time frame for IC Championships.....
Would be a start.

Of course the ICGPA can't do any of those things but don't let that stop the usual suspects from blaming them for everything.

Rossfan, that's the strawiest looking man I ever saw. Why are you making up the suggestion that people are demanding that the GAA should be making things better for club players? YOU were the one who suggested club players should join the GPA. I pointed out to you that they were barred from membership.

For what it's worth, I don't think the GPA should exist. If any players need representation it's club players. But I don't think a players' representative association is the way to solve their problems. Everyone knows the problems. Heffo, AZ, et al have listed them clearly. If the players who are affected would use their democratic power to mandate the changes necessary, things could be fixed in a season. In practically every club, the players would hold a democratic majority if they chose to organise and show up at meetings, get their stuff of the agenda, on to county conventions, congress, etc. That's how it should work, but most clubs are run by a few ould lads who are the only ones who go to meetings, AGMs, etc. Time for the club players to go to the committee room after training.

[Zulu]

The reason the club man is the problem is because we could change it all through the structures we have but we don't because after all the moaning clubs do, they don't mandate their county boards to support anything, any-bloody- thing radical, which is why the B championship has been proposed again.

Minor and U21 dual players are a huge problem, playing two cup competitions as our main events is a huge problem and inevitably leads to clubs not knowing when they're playing. The Sigerson has no impact on the club season but again, it's easier to address that than the real problems.

I read the former Donegal Physio said 66% of their injuries were training related and players had a 10:1 training to games ratio. There's your problem for both club and county but the club man will moan about his lot but not address the issues that cause it.

[AZOffaly]

Tell the truth Zulu. You don't give a shite about club players. You want a sexy inter county season and loads of 'high profile' games. Would you favour a scenario where the county season and club seasons run side by side, with minimal crossover of players, similar to what happens in Irish rugby at the moment?

[deiseach]

The IC season is far too long and gaps between matches are too long.

This really has to be tried before we do anything dramatic. Something in HQ needs to crack skulls at provincial level and say that all rounds must be played on the same weekend. To concentrate minds, announce the All-Ireland quarter-finals will be played on the first weekend in July, and if you're not ready you are giving a walkover. Can you imagine the craic of a weekend where all eight provincial semi-finals are staged?

[AZOffaly]

The IC season is far too long and gaps between matches are too long.

This really has to be tried before we do anything dramatic. Something in HQ needs to crack skulls at provincial level and say that all rounds must be played on the same weekend. To concentrate minds, announce the All-Ireland quarter-finals will be played on the first weekend in July, and if you're not ready you are giving a walkover. Can you imagine the craic of a weekend where all eight provincial semi-finals are staged?

They won't do that because of the financial implications, especially re TV coverage.

[deiseach]

They won't do that because of the financial implications, especially re TV coverage.

If that is true, and I wonder if it is, then the GPA has won. The inevitable logic is to go down Dessie's Champions League route.

[AZOffaly]

They won't do that because of the financial implications, especially re TV coverage.

If that is true, and I wonder if it is, then the GPA has won. The inevitable logic is to go down Dessie's Champions League route.

To be fair, I don't think that's a GPA led school of thought, they just happen to agree with it. Decisions have been made on our games with financial motivation the prime factor for several years now. It's a tough one. We, as an amateur organisation, need cash to function, and our biggest cash cow is the inter county game. However, when you appoint business people into positions where they are trying to maximise revenue, you risk the actual games themselves being impacted by decisions which are made for financial reasons.

We need money, but we need to strike the balance where we have enough money to run an amateur association, with screwing with our games in a bid to maximise revenue.

[Zulu]

You couldn't be further from the truth AZ. Yes, I want radical change in the IC season to get us away from the daft scenario of IC teams playing 3 times in a week in January and then playing once every five weeks in the summer. Yes, I want to change our IC season so lads aren't training ten times for every one game. And yes I want change to get more high profile clashes between the top teams but that isn't because I want a sexy season (whatever that is), I want a logical season that has merit for all players, IC and club. 90% of IC games should be played in the all Ireland championship and our leagues have to, HAVE TO, be central to the championship. Ban dual IC players, and play IC competitions in parallel.Do that and you have a clear structure to the season which clubs can confidently build around. Stick with what we have or the minor adjustments some want and the club player will continue to get screwed.

[AZOffaly]

All you've said I agree with, apart from banning dual IC players at minor and U21 level. I don't think you have to ban them at senior level any more, because it's just not feasible.

At U21 level, the Football and Hurling don't really overlap, so that shouldn't be a major issue.

At Minor they do, but in fairness they are still kids and not working or in college so it's not a massive issue in my eyes.

I would incorporate the leagues into the championship, and have straight knockout. Reward winners of the league in a meaningful way, financially (at board level) and with some sort of holiday at player level.

I would say that Minors, U21s and Seniors can ONLY be on one grade at a time. If you are a Minor, you cannot play U21, likewise an U21 cannot play senior.

And i would have the All Ireland over by the Middle of August.

I would have counties play their leagues without county players, or at least schedule fixtures without worrying about a county match next week.

I would only 'protect' 26 named county players from those league games.

I would have a club blackout period end of July/start of August
I would play knockout championships in counties, kicking off no later than 2 weeks after the county team is out of the running.

Get rid of qualifers and forget about champions league style championships.

[AZOffaly]

But all of the above does not in any way blame the GPA for the current mess, I just don't like their solution which is based on Champions League and more intercounty games.

It also does not remove the need for someone (another representative body or within existing structures) to stand up for the club player in terms of some of the items I mentioned earlier.

And neither does any of the above take into account the drive towards revenue generation that I think the GAA are beholden to, and the GPA are supportive of.

[Kickham csc]

But all of the above does not in any way blame the GPA for the current mess, I just don't like their solution which is based on Champions League and more intercounty games.

It also does not remove the need for someone (another representative body or within existing structures) to stand up for the club player in terms of some of the items I mentioned earlier.

And neither does any of the above take into account the drive towards revenue generation that I think the GAA are beholden to, and the GPA are supportive of.

The GPA do have a contribution to the current mess. At the start of the GPA, one of their major complaints was that the county player trained for 6 months for 1 championship game (never recognizing  McKenna cups etc, NFL) the solution was the back door which has created this current mess. And their current proposal is more games!!!!!!

My solution, I've stated this before, is to run the GAA like NCAA basketball.

All teams get ranked 1-33 (34 if Killkenny are in) and your league performance, provincial championship performance all contribute to final rankings after provincial championships, then split the teams into 4 groups and have a straight knockout championship with each group seeded.

Condense the season, now each team has at a min 10 serious games, and the weaker counties have a big day to look forward too.

Minor U21 to be played at the same time, maybe midweek, with no overlapping of players

This should be a no brianer

[Rossfan]

Qualifiers came in in 2001.
When was the GPA founded?
Are you proposing an A,B,C,D Championship?

[Rossfan]

What do non County Club players actually want?

I'd suggest they want a defined club calendar where holidays and other milestones can be planned - not one drafted in January which everyone knows won't be adhered to.

A shorter IC season and less power for IC managers to effectively cancel the club championships until the IC season is over.

A kick in the ass for ineffective CCC's that can't run off Championships even when their IC team was knocked out months earlier.

All of the above are matters that can be resolved by the GAA with a bit of will and common sense.
Mind you most County Senior teams' seasons are ended by around 10th July so that's surely short enough for them to have county finals played before 1st October.
Inter County managers have no official powers - Co Boards accede to their requests to postpone Club games.

Restricting eligibilities, downgrading third level college games to being a nice diversion from studies, designated weekends one per month in May/June/July/Aug for Club championship games only, shorter time frame for IC Championships.....
Would be a start.

Of course the ICGPA can't do any of those things but don't let that stop the usual suspects from blaming them for everything.

Rossfan, that's the strawiest looking man I ever saw. Why are you making up the suggestion that people are demanding that the GAA should be making things better for club players? YOU were the one who suggested club players should join the GPA. I pointed out to you that they were barred from membership.

I don't understand Meathish.
I was responding to the points Heffo made where he outlined what he thinks non County club players want.
A lot of earlier posters were on about setting up a ClubGPA.

[AZOffaly]

A lot of the issues facing inter county players could have been resolved within the GAA ' with a bit of will and common sense'.

And because of a lack of that, the GPA came into being.

I see parallels, and in a lot of cases, the lack of will and common sense is now because Inter County is deciding the direction of the association.

[Kickham csc]

Qualifiers came in in 2001.
When was the GPA founded?
Are you proposing an A,B,C,D Championship?

No, instead of back door, an All Ireland Championship, but run it off in a grading system, top four seeds split into 4 groups and so on, just like the NCAA march madness tournament