Ireland’s debt is forecast to reach a little above €203 billion or 111 per cent

Started by barryqwalsh, October 16, 2014, 10:23:31 PM

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Mike Sheehy

Quote from: barryqwalsh on October 17, 2014, 11:56:46 AM
No foreign aid until Ireland gets it's own house in order!

That is too extreme and could be counter productive. This is the vision of the Irish government as stated on the link you posted

QuoteWe work towards reduced poverty and hunger; inclusive and sustainable economic growth and better governance, human rights and accountability,. All of our efforts towards these three goals are informed by our vision and values.
Our vision is for a sustainable and just world, where people are empowered to overcome poverty and hunger and fully realise their rights and potential.

If this vision is successful then it can benefit Ireland economically i.e more trading partners, increased trade  Therefore, if your argument is purely economic and you set aside the humanitarian aspect (which is what you seem to be doing) then you're argument is counter productive.

What is interesting is that many people would be extremely ideologically opposed to this vision as they see any attempt at influencing foreign governance as a form of imperialism.

barryqwalsh

€8.25 billion in interest payments is a total waste of money. The government should govern on behalf of the people, not global financial blood suckers.

barryqwalsh

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 17, 2014, 12:54:35 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda link=topic=25169.msg1411027#msg1411027
Every little helps!
date=1413536323

Quote from: barryqwalsh on October 16, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
In 2013, the Government spent €637 million on Ireland's aid programme.

https://www.irishaid.ie/what-we-do/how-our-aid-works/where-the-money-goes/

Maybe it is time the Irish Government got it's own house in order before it tries to save the world.
Hi Barry,

Do you have an amount in mind as to how much, if any, Ireland should give towards foreign aid?

Our foreign aid contribution has dropped by 36% between 2008 and 2012.

There was a worldwide recession in the latter part of the last decade. The poorest people in the world are likely to have been affected most, just like the poorest people in Ireland are. If every country took the view that you seem to be suggesting then the poor, already suffering due to the recession, would be hit even harder.

I believe we should be increasing our aid.

Do you rank certain people, or groups of people, lower than the Irish because they live in an area that, for reasons not their own, isn't as affluent as ours?

Hi again Esmarelda.

I always find these kinds of statements interesting...

Quote"Do you rank certain people, or groups of people, lower than the Irish because they live in an area that, for reasons not their own"

could you enlighten us on that a bit more. How responsible are Irish people for the poor governance of other countries ?

I think since you are the one making the demands the onus is on you to be more specific about statements like this before you try and guilt trip everybody. After all, as you said yourself, it is more important to "enlighten" than merely be "right".

RealSpiritof98

Quote from: barryqwalsh on October 18, 2014, 01:27:12 AM
€8.25 billion in interest payments is a total waste of money. The government should govern on behalf of the people, not global financial blood suckers.

finally an opinion without a link, i commend you!!!! lol

Mike Sheehy

Quote from: barryqwalsh on October 18, 2014, 01:27:12 AM
€8.25 billion in interest payments is a total waste of money. The government should govern on behalf of the people, not global financial blood suckers.

That is brave talk. Pity there wasn't more of that talk when the "global financial blood suckers" were throwing money at us.It is a dangerous game trying to be a hare and running with the hounds.


mikehunt

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 18, 2014, 02:01:01 AM
Quote from: barryqwalsh on October 18, 2014, 01:27:12 AM
€8.25 billion in interest payments is a total waste of money. The government should govern on behalf of the people, not global financial blood suckers.

That is brave talk. Pity there wasn't more of that talk when the "global financial blood suckers" were throwing money at us.It is a dangerous game trying to be a hare and running with the hounds.

When bonds were issued the interest rates reflected the risk of non repayment.  Ireland was seen as a  safe bet. When things went tits up bondholders would normally expect to be burned. Our govt buckled and decided to honour all debts. Our govt acted in the best interests of everyone but the people it was elected to represent. Financial Institutions exist to make money and I'd have no truck with them. Blame lies solely with our incompetent and spineless government.

Even if bank debt was removed we'd still be running a significant deficit.  Ireland's biggest problem is the size and cost of the civil/public service. This governance answer to addressing the deficit? Irish Water. 

armaghniac

Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 09:49:25 AM
Even if bank debt was removed we'd still be running a significant deficit.  Ireland's biggest problem is the size and cost of the civil/public service. This governance answer to addressing the deficit? Irish Water.

Why is the cost of the civil/public service the problem in the context of overall public expenditure. Why is the larger amount spent on welfare payments and the like not the problem?

The problem is the gap between income and expenditure and giving away water in that context is inappropriate, it is something that no other government in a developed country thinks wise.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

mikehunt

Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 01:03:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 09:49:25 AM
Even if bank debt was removed we'd still be running a significant deficit.  Ireland's biggest problem is the size and cost of the civil/public service. This governance answer to addressing the deficit? Irish Water.

Why is the cost of the civil/public service the problem in the context of overall public expenditure. Why is the larger amount spent on welfare payments and the like not the problem?

The problem is the gap between income and expenditure and giving away water in that context is inappropriate, it is something that no other government in a developed country thinks wise.

Who do you think has been paying for water all along? You reckon Enda and Phil Hogan have been chipping in from their own pocket? They can afford it on their inflated salaries alright.

armaghniac

Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 09:27:29 PM
Who do you think has been paying for water all along?.

Until 2007, people paying stamp duty on overpriced houses from borrowed money, since 2007 the government borrowed the money to pay for water.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

mikehunt

Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 09:27:29 PM
Who do you think has been paying for water all along?.

Until 2007, people paying stamp duty on overpriced houses from borrowed money, since 2007 the government borrowed the money to pay for water.

So taxes paid for the water? You said it was being given away in your previous post. You need to get your lies straight.

armaghniac

Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 10:15:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 09:27:29 PM
Who do you think has been paying for water all along?.

Until 2007, people paying stamp duty on overpriced houses from borrowed money, since 2007 the government borrowed the money to pay for water.

So taxes paid for the water? You said it was being given away in your previous post. You need to get your lies straight.

I think you had better work on your reading comprehension. The boom taxes that paid for it are no longer available and currently borrowed money had paid for the water, which is undesirable.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

mikehunt

Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 10:22:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 10:15:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 09:27:29 PM
Who do you think has been paying for water all along?.

Until 2007, people paying stamp duty on overpriced houses from borrowed money, since 2007 the government borrowed the money to pay for water.

So taxes paid for the water? You said it was being given away in your previous post. You need to get your lies straight.

I think you had better work on your reading comprehension. The boom taxes that paid for it are no longer available and currently borrowed money had paid for the water, which is undesirable.

So boom time taxes paid for water? Boom started in early part of this century. Pretty sure we had running water prior to that. Was it given away before the boom?

armaghniac

Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 10:32:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 10:22:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 10:15:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 09:27:29 PM
Who do you think has been paying for water all along?.

Until 2007, people paying stamp duty on overpriced houses from borrowed money, since 2007 the government borrowed the money to pay for water.

So taxes paid for the water? You said it was being given away in your previous post. You need to get your lies straight.

I think you had better work on your reading comprehension. The boom taxes that paid for it are no longer available and currently borrowed money had paid for the water, which is undesirable.

So boom time taxes paid for water? Boom started in early part of this century. Pretty sure we had running water prior to that. Was it given away before the boom?

Water has been available to people since the 19th century, for which they paid rates.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

mikehunt

Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 10:32:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 10:22:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 10:15:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2014, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2014, 09:27:29 PM
Who do you think has been paying for water all along?.

Until 2007, people paying stamp duty on overpriced houses from borrowed money, since 2007 the government borrowed the money to pay for water.

So taxes paid for the water? You said it was being given away in your previous post. You need to get your lies straight.

I think you had better work on your reading comprehension. The boom taxes that paid for it are no longer available and currently borrowed money had paid for the water, which is undesirable.

So boom time taxes paid for water? Boom started in early part of this century. Pretty sure we had running water prior to that. Was it given away before the boom?

Water has been available to people since the 19th century, for which they paid rates.

Why do you insist on constantly contradicting yourself?

seafoid

Quote from: barryqwalsh on October 18, 2014, 01:27:12 AM
€8.25 billion in interest payments is a total waste of money. The government should govern on behalf of the people, not global financial blood suckers.
The government borrows the money to pay salaries. There is no such thing as a free lunch, not even in the civil service.