Paul Earley's Ireland International Rules Squad

[moysider]

If kicking the ball was a more effective way of winning football matches then managers would have their teams doing that.

Players are fitter now and can run up and down the field for an hour so it makes sense to retain possession. Kicking the ball is more likely to give the ball away. And the team you kick it away to might not be nice enough to kick it away again.

It s a bit like American football where apart from the quarterback the ball is seldom passed or thrown for fear of a fumble or interception.

It s not a recent development. Back in the 70s Heffo and Micko revolutionised football with better fitness and more handpassing. Some great footballers were throwing balls into the net.

We won t get a kicking game again unless there are changes to rules that would make kicking the ball a more likely way to win.

Limiting or banning handpasses would produce a new game there and then. Making six players stay in opposition half would as well but that produces another problem. Who is going to envigilate that?
All sports naturally evolve. We ve got the game we have because players have got bigger, faster and fitter and generally better. Modern teams would blow away the teams of 40 years ago.

When I look at the way kids are trained to play Gaelic Football it's no surprise handpassing is the item of choice.

If you spend your life performing endless drills in training which repeat one aspect of the game. You revert to type in game situations.

Aussie kids are trained to win by learning their skills in a game playing environment. Ours are trained not to lose in a training environment.

As I said the rugby game yesterday encapsulated it perfectly. One team had ambition and lost. But that ambition is why they can beat the All Blacks sometimes and we can't.

I take you re point about the Aussie way but are not kids coached the way they are in Gaelic because that is the way games are won?

Being devil's advocate here because I d love a game of high catches and accurate kicking. But a team that keeps possession and only allows a few choice players to kick the ball beats that all the time. How long would the traditional coach last? How long did Liam Sammon last in Galway? Not long. The purists did for Ford and Kernan. The results did for Sammon even though people loved how his teams tried to play.

Not at all.  You really need to start thinking about this if you're involved in coaching and I don't mean that in a patronising way in any shape or form.

Gaelic Football still is being being coached exactly the same as schools rugby teams.

why Irish rugby teams don't have the all-blacks skillset? Because the schools cup teaches them not to lose games rather then win them. So in the international arena they get exposed when the pressure is at it's highest because they haven't the skillset to execute properly against the best teams. Its why they spent the entire game yesterday kicking the ball up in the air.

Why our players couldn't deal with the AFL players is exactly the same. They were playing against professional athletes who gave them even less time then in an inter county game and time and again they made bad decisions on the ball because of these endless bloody drills players do most of their careers where they are running around cones playing 5 yard hand-passes. They are no use when a super-fit, athletic player is hunting you down.

The Aussies don't- they learn their chosen field game from a young age making mistakes. In Ireland I still see parents trying roaring at their kids in an u10 game. Madness. And it takes an international arena to expose it because GAA has no international outlet. Yesterday our top players had inferior kicking skills to individuals who had 3 weeks practice with the round ball.

Once you're cocooned in your own environment you're always great. Thats why Donegal under Mc Guinness were the worst thing ever to hit the GAA because you now have u14 teams thinking this is the way forward. They'll never play any other way either!

You develop good GAA players by playing small sided games in training from a young age and outside warm ups - throw away the drills manual. Let them make all the mistakes in the world and forget trying to win anything until they are about 15/16. You mighn't be the most successful underage coach in the world - but you just might train 4-5 players who will be good enough to not just play senior inter county football- but be among the elite.

I see your point but it s not going to work. Sport is result based no matter what good intentions the coach may have.

Donegal won an AI playing their way. They wouldn t win one playing like Kerry used to. I m more pleased a county like Donegal won it playing like they did than Kerry winning another - while getting defensive themselves.

Nothing wrong with diversity anyway. In football, Brazil, Arg., Germany, Italy, Holland, France have all been successful and different at the same time.

Australia have their way in rugby, and they are often a joy to watch. But there are other ways and nobody wants every team to play the same way. The Blacks are technically brilliant but it s great that a mental French team can sometimes do them. I love the fact that England still play props with bellies and a no.8 with tits. Wales still produce class players and Ireland are a different culture as well. Sport would not interest me if it had a sameness about it.

[macdanger2]

If kicking the ball was a more effective way of winning football matches then managers would have their teams doing that.

Players are fitter now and can run up and down the field for an hour so it makes sense to retain possession. Kicking the ball is more likely to give the ball away. And the team you kick it away to might not be nice enough to kick it away again.

It s a bit like American football where apart from the quarterback the ball is seldom passed or thrown for fear of a fumble or interception.

It s not a recent development. Back in the 70s Heffo and Micko revolutionised football with better fitness and more handpassing. Some great footballers were throwing balls into the net.

We won t get a kicking game again unless there are changes to rules that would make kicking the ball a more likely way to win.

Limiting or banning handpasses would produce a new game there and then. Making six players stay in opposition half would as well but that produces another problem. Who is going to envigilate that?
All sports naturally evolve. We ve got the game we have because players have got bigger, faster and fitter and generally better. Modern teams would blow away the teams of 40 years ago.

When I look at the way kids are trained to play Gaelic Football it's no surprise handpassing is the item of choice.

If you spend your life performing endless drills in training which repeat one aspect of the game. You revert to type in game situations.

Aussie kids are trained to win by learning their skills in a game playing environment. Ours are trained not to lose in a training environment.

As I said the rugby game yesterday encapsulated it perfectly. One team had ambition and lost. But that ambition is why they can beat the All Blacks sometimes and we can't.

I take you re point about the Aussie way but are not kids coached the way they are in Gaelic because that is the way games are won?

Being devil's advocate here because I d love a game of high catches and accurate kicking. But a team that keeps possession and only allows a few choice players to kick the ball beats that all the time. How long would the traditional coach last? How long did Liam Sammon last in Galway? Not long. The purists did for Ford and Kernan. The results did for Sammon even though people loved how his teams tried to play.

Not at all.  You really need to start thinking about this if you're involved in coaching and I don't mean that in a patronising way in any shape or form.

Gaelic Football still is being being coached exactly the same as schools rugby teams.

why Irish rugby teams don't have the all-blacks skillset? Because the schools cup teaches them not to lose games rather then win them. So in the international arena they get exposed when the pressure is at it's highest because they haven't the skillset to execute properly against the best teams. Its why they spent the entire game yesterday kicking the ball up in the air.

Why our players couldn't deal with the AFL players is exactly the same. They were playing against professional athletes who gave them even less time then in an inter county game and time and again they made bad decisions on the ball because of these endless bloody drills players do most of their careers where they are running around cones playing 5 yard hand-passes. They are no use when a super-fit, athletic player is hunting you down.

The Aussies don't- they learn their chosen field game from a young age making mistakes. In Ireland I still see parents trying roaring at their kids in an u10 game. Madness. And it takes an international arena to expose it because GAA has no international outlet. Yesterday our top players had inferior kicking skills to individuals who had 3 weeks practice with the round ball.

Once you're cocooned in your own environment you're always great. Thats why Donegal under Mc Guinness were the worst thing ever to hit the GAA because you now have u14 teams thinking this is the way forward. They'll never play any other way either!

You develop good GAA players by playing small sided games in training from a young age and outside warm ups - throw away the drills manual. Let them make all the mistakes in the world and forget trying to win anything until they are about 15/16. You mighn't be the most successful underage coach in the world - but you just might train 4-5 players who will be good enough to not just play senior inter county football- but be among the elite.

You know an unreal amount about how training should be done Indy, the teams you train must have endless success 

[maigheo]

I think Indianas point  that underage players first aim should not be winning but learning the skills of the game is a valid one.But how are you going to change a culture when even winning an u 12 title is widely celebrated in a parish?Reading James Horans interview yesterday he makes the point  that as coach of an u16 girls team the least important part of the game for him at this stage is the result.Skills and understanding are the key elements right now and winning will come later.

[nrico2006]

Embarassing by the Irish, unbelievable the number of panic shots taken that went completely wide for no points and the same with a few frees, especially the one from O'Neill at the start and Hughes near the end.  The big difference was the mindset of the players - the Irish got the ball and in a lot of cases just hoofed it high up the field therefore taking the situation from being them in 100% possession to a 50/50 ball.  The Aussies did the seemingly simple and smart thing and got the ball and had players running towards the man in possession to receive the 30/40 yard kick pass to the chest for the mark.  It actually reminded me of backs and forwards and how the forward is always on his toes ready to sprint towards the man hitting the balls in, but I cant understand how Ireland were not trying to employ this tactic.  I watched the Irish team on the ball and struggle to get a scoring chance in a long period of time (possession wise), yet as soon as the Aussies got the ball they had worked it to their forward line, won an easy chest mark and tapped it over the bar.  The squad selection is a joke too, typical of the GAAs great organisational skills to again schedule this match at a time when the majority of top players are unavailable.  Its like every other year when you see players faced with the dilemma of playing a county final or playing in this game, why oh why does some brainchild even think its possible for a player to be in two places at once.  As for a player of the 'series' award for one game, whats the all about.  Would it not be more relevant to call it a man of the match award.

[rodney trotter]

Embarassing by the Irish, unbelievable the number of panic shots taken that went completely wide for no points and the same with a few frees, especially the one from O'Neill at the start and Hughes near the end.  The big difference was the mindset of the players - the Irish got the ball and in a lot of cases just hoofed it high up the field therefore taking the situation from being them in 100% possession to a 50/50 ball.  The Aussies did the seemingly simple and smart thing and got the ball and had players running towards the man in possession to receive the 30/40 yard kick pass to the chest for the mark.  It actually reminded me of backs and forwards and how the forward is always on his toes ready to sprint towards the man hitting the balls in, but I cant understand how Ireland were not trying to employ this tactic.  I watched the Irish team on the ball and struggle to get a scoring chance in a long period of time (possession wise), yet as soon as the Aussies got the ball they had worked it to their forward line, won an easy chest mark and tapped it over the bar.  The squad selection is a joke too, typical of the GAAs great organisational skills to again schedule this match at a time when the majority of top players are unavailable. Its like every other year when you see players faced with the dilemma of playing a county final or playing in this game, why oh why does some brainchild even think its possible for a player to be in two places at once.  As for a player of the 'series' award for one game, whats the all about.  Would it not be more relevant to call it a man of the match award.

When could they schedule the match, in the middle of the AFL season? The game this year was a month later then last year, so it did free up some players. Obviously not all, but that wouldn't happen anyways.

[seafoid]

I think Indianas point  that underage players first aim should not be winning but learning the skills of the game is a valid one.But how are you going to change a culture when even winning an u 12 title is widely celebrated in a parish?Reading James Horans interview yesterday he makes the point  that as coach of an u16 girls team the least important part of the game for him at this stage is the result.Skills and understanding are the key elements right now and winning will come later.

The Belgian soccer crowd reformed their approach to underage sport about 15 years ago by focusing on technique rather than winning and standardising across clubs and they ended up developing players like Hazard and Kompany.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/06/belgium-blueprint-gave-birth-golden-generation-world-cup-

"Tapping into philosophies and training methods in the national setups in Netherlands and France, their neighbours in the north and south, as well as at clubs such as Ajax and Barcelona, Browaeys and his colleagues proposed that every Belgium youth team would play 4-3-3 and that work should begin on producing a totally different type of player.

"It was a massive shift but we believed that 4-3-3, at that moment, was the strongest learning environment for our players," Browaeys says. "We felt that we had to develop dribbling skills, we said at the heart of our vision was 1v1, the duel. We said when a boy or girl wants to start playing football, you must offer first the dribble, let them play freely."

One of the findings in the university research was that there was far too much emphasis on winning and not enough on development. There was also evidence to support the federation's theory that 2v2, 5v5 and 8v8 were the best small-sided games to encourage children to practise the skills – dribbling and diagonal passing – that were central to their philosophy of playing 4-3-3."

It sounds like the Aussies do something similar.

[lawnseed]

Ah listen.. The pick of ireland wouldnt give kilkenny a decent game of hurling. They cant play football!! Fellas here talking about the all blacks..  They dont play football!! Talking about belgiun soccer.. They dont play football!  We play football!! The aussies who dont play football outscored us in a fair game that is as near to our game as dammit.. Thats the truth. We had county players kicking 2om frees wide right in front of goals made 3 times bigger. Players failing to kick ten yard passes player kicking frees straight to the aussies! Short kicks! Thats not good enough. The guy whos name is on that cup was better than that and he deserves better. Its our cup and they have it! No excuses abiut underage training or any other shite will excuse what we saw

[From the Bunker]

Ah listen.. The pick of ireland wouldnt give kilkenny a decent game of hurling. They cant play football!! Fellas here talking about the all blacks..  They dont play football!! Talking about belgiun soccer.. They dont play football!  We play football!! The aussies who dont play football outscored us in a fair game that is as near to our game as dammit.. Thats the truth. We had county players kicking 2om frees wide right in front of goals made 3 times bigger. Players failing to kick ten yard passes player kicking frees straight to the aussies! Short kicks! Thats not good enough. The guy whos name is on that cup was better than that and he deserves better. Its our cup and they have it! No excuses abiut underage training or any other shite will excuse what we saw

The thing is we are usually in our own world cocoon when it comes to judging the skills of our game. Gaelic games people like to slap themselves on the back in their safe haven of having no outside force to compare against. Soccer and to a very lesser degree Rugby get hammered by the Irish public. Saturdays game exposed us from our comfort zone as to how highly we hold our players skill wise. A caveat must be remembered. Not the most skillful players are picked for this game!

[INDIANA]

Ah listen.. The pick of ireland wouldnt give kilkenny a decent game of hurling. They cant play football!! Fellas here talking about the all blacks..  They dont play football!! Talking about belgiun soccer.. They dont play football!  We play football!! The aussies who dont play football outscored us in a fair game that is as near to our game as dammit.. Thats the truth. We had county players kicking 2om frees wide right in front of goals made 3 times bigger. Players failing to kick ten yard passes player kicking frees straight to the aussies! Short kicks! Thats not good enough. The guy whos name is on that cup was better than that and he deserves better. Its our cup and they have it! No excuses abiut underage training or any other shite will excuse what we saw

Problem is lawnseed your post is 20 years out of date. If you don't know why the skills were executed badly then you never improve. Are you from Mayo?

[seafoid]

Why didn't they just send out the Dubs jaysus?

[brokencrossbar1]

Lads I know a lot of this is a bit tongue in cheek but the reality is that Indiana is right.  There is far too much emphasis put on drills etc at a young age.  Of course the kids need to know the basics but there is no better way than to break them into small groups and have them kicking, hand passing soloing etc to each other and then play lots of games.  I have said this before and I will say it again a lot of kids are being coached in a lot of clubs by lads, albeit them doing it with the right intention, who have no idea themselves how to carry out the basics of the game.  They are fathers, uncles, neighbours etc of young lads,  many of them living their own failed sporting dreams vicariously through their progeny, and they have carried out the foundation training to enable them to get that U10 job.    They don't know the basics of how to kick a ball so cannot correct a young lad when he does it wrong and as a result they either play short hand pass games etc or continue on and the young lads develop bad habits which are very hard to break.  In my opinion there should be pressure within clubs to get senior players involved in coaching the kids.  It does 2 things,  hopefully they can instill some strong skills to the younger lads but secondly the kids then have an incentive to develop. 

Kicking a football is one of the easiest things to do and all teams should be encouraged to do it.  This nonsense that it won't win games is spewed out by people who don't understand what it is to coach it and as a result they take the default position that let's do the easy thing.  The reality is that the blanket defence is shrinking and will continue to do so.  Traditionally strong teams like Dublin, Kerry and Armagh will profit this year as they do play well when they move the ball early and fast.  Their fitness levels are at the same as the likes of Donegal now and once they match the workrate the better footballers will beat the system.

[seafoid]

Lads I know a lot of this is a bit tongue in cheek but the reality is that Indiana is right.  There is far too much emphasis put on drills etc at a young age.  Of course the kids need to know the basics but there is no better way than to break them into small groups and have them kicking, hand passing soloing etc to each other and then play lots of games.  I have said this before and I will say it again a lot of kids are being coached in a lot of clubs by lads, albeit them doing it with the right intention, who have no idea themselves how to carry out the basics of the game.  They are fathers, uncles, neighbours etc of young lads,  many of them living their own failed sporting dreams vicariously through their progeny, and they have carried out the foundation training to enable them to get that U10 job.    They don't know the basics of how to kick a ball so cannot correct a young lad when he does it wrong and as a result they either play short hand pass games etc or continue on and the young lads develop bad habits which are very hard to break.  In my opinion there should be pressure within clubs to get senior players involved in coaching the kids.  It does 2 things,  hopefully they can instill some strong skills to the younger lads but secondly the kids then have an incentive to develop. 

Kicking a football is one of the easiest things to do and all teams should be encouraged to do it.  This nonsense that it won't win games is spewed out by people who don't understand what it is to coach it and as a result they take the default position that let's do the easy thing.  The reality is that the blanket defence is shrinking and will continue to do so.  Traditionally strong teams like Dublin, Kerry and Armagh will profit this year as they do play well when they move the ball early and fast.  Their fitness levels are at the same as the likes of Donegal now and once they match the workrate the better footballers will beat the system.

+1
I'd say a lot of coaches working with kids only have rudimentary insight.

I think the basic skills of sports are not really a focus. I remember at home they put up a gym in the 80s and it cost a fortune. It had volleyball and basketball courts but nobody ever played volleyball because nobody knew how to, what the tactics were, how to serve etc. So it ended up being used for indoor soccer.

I did some tennis lessons a while ago with a decent coach and he spent ages on the backhand, how to approach the ball, how to hold the racket, feet positioning to decide ball direction etc. Hours of practice. I was thinking how different it was to the way I saw sports being coached as a kid.  It's not mysterious. Every sport has certain standard ways to do things and you have to be taught them by someone who understands them.  And in other countries that is how they do it. Focus on the basics and see where it will bring people

I was watching punters playing tennis during the summer who hadn't been coached. They had arrived at a certain style of play involving lots of wrist flicking and could win a certain number of points but it was nowhere near the level of people who have been coached properly.   

[manfromdelmonte]

knowledge is not shared in GAA coaching. its a very narrow minded thing.

ie, the less skilled coaches get very little opportunity to learn off the best coaches

[Redhand Santa]

Thought it was an enjoyable game, better than a lot of championship matches this summer. Was very competitive when Ireland finally got going. Really hope it continues because it gives our top players chance to pit themselves against top professional sports men from a game with a lot of familiar skills to our own. No idea why people get so worked up against it.

I enjoyed the fact that the kickouts had to go 45m and though Ireland competed better there than I expected. I do think people have to put the kicking thing into a bit of perspective. It would have been many players first big game in months and they were in a stadium on far side of the world. I thought the biggest issue was that players were panicking in possession. They were too concerned about avoiding the tackle (something they're not used to dealing with) and this was leading to rushed efforts.

Colm oneill and ose would normally shoot a lot better than so,me of their efforts on Saturday. Ireland did kick some nice points when they got going and used to the game. And I was impressed with how we competed physically against professionals in the 2nd half. If we'd brought a few more of our better forwards I think we'd have won. Looking forward to the return in croke park next year, let's hope the Aussies send as strong a team for it.

[ck]

knowledge is not shared in GAA coaching. its a very narrow minded thing.

ie, the less skilled coaches get very little opportunity to learn off the best coaches

Absolute nonsense. The GAA run comprehensive coaching courses at all levels in every county. Some led by the countries best coaches. Those who want to learn and coach,,it's all there for them. The rest moan about the lack of opportunity and write posts like the above.