Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[gallsman]

Surely people are free to have their own opinions without being told how to think?

If you love everything about the new rules that's your prerogative.

If you are more traditional in your views and would like to have seen less change then you are entitled to that opinion too.

How will football get to the stage that we see a packed ground like in Clare for the hurling today?

Because no matter how you think the rules are going the public are not turning up to watch.

Fair comments. Is an emotive issue. I think is tweaks needed still but def a huge improvement.
Don't think football will ever hit the level of the Munster hurling which is do or die with bottom 2 in league of 5 gone. Practically every game is epic. Not so much in Leinster till the quarter finals.

You're the one slabbering away about anyone who dares to think Jim Gavin ain't the Messiah, here to save the people from their footballing sins.

[EoinW]

Truthsayer you have been forceful in your comments and that is fine. As I said everyone entitled to feel how they want to.

What I would say to people who love the rules is try to understand there is another point of view.

The media have been very one sided and Irish people don't like being told how to think.

Yes some change was needed and I would say everyone could agree with that. But the amount of change needed is the debate!

Losing a large section of gaelic football followers because the powers that be may not be willing to compromise on the changes would be very detrimental for the game.

Choose a small amount of the changes and see how the game pans out over the next 5 years. Keeping them all for 5 years would be a big risk.

Thank you for the reasonable comments.  It is hard to believe sometime but we are all on the same side.  Thus my first concern with these massive changes is how divisive it is within the GAA community.

I've another concern, which relates to my general distrust of the GAA.  It was touched on by the poster who mentioned the full house at Clare today and how Gaelic football can't draw that kind of support.  I'd point out the game in Cork and how, even against Kerry, it was a rather empty stadium.  When the Cork hurlers come home there won't be an empty seat in the place.

To be fair, I'm using Munster as an example and it is a hurling province.  Is attendance falling off in the football provinces too?  It makes me wonder if this rules overhaul isn't simply an act of desperation.

What really troubles me is that numerous smaller counties have seen their championship season end and it isn't even May!  They're dropped into a tier two championship that no one really cares about.  At least the backdoor system gave them a second chance and the opportunity of playing numerous championship games.

Why should anyone from Antrim or Sligo care about football when their county is being treated second class?  It must be really annoying to see their season shortened so you can have the Round of 16, which gives Dublin and Kerry three extra games.  How about putting the Wicklow or Fermanagh footballers on RTE 3 times this summer and see if that boosts football interest in those counties.

The strong get stronger and the weak get weaker.  This is my problem with the GAA.  If they aren't going to treat each county as an equal and give them a fair chance in the championship, then how can one trust the GAA's motives on anything - like the rule changes?

[Milltown Row2]

You said numerous games in the back door, if you're put out in the next match it's just one game you get, hardly numerous, with the second tier they get another set of games. But sure you knew that..

Teams like Antrim are not in a position to be in the Sam Maguire, not good enough, they need to (like others) earn that by getting up through the leagues and performing better in Ulster or whatever province they are from

[Truthsayer]

Surely people are free to have their own opinions without being told how to think?

If you love everything about the new rules that's your prerogative.

If you are more traditional in your views and would like to have seen less change then you are entitled to that opinion too.

How will football get to the stage that we see a packed ground like in Clare for the hurling today?

Because no matter how you think the rules are going the public are not turning up to watch.

Fair comments. Is an emotive issue. I think is tweaks needed still but def a huge improvement.
Don't think football will ever hit the level of the Munster hurling which is do or die with bottom 2 in league of 5 gone. Practically every game is epic. Not so much in Leinster till the quarter finals.

You're the one slabbering away about anyone who dares to think Jim Gavin ain't the Messiah, here to save the people from their footballing sins.

Ooh you're hard 

[The Trap]

You see that's my point. We can't all be falling out with eachother.

I have seen it in my own friends groups, some people think the rules are class. But when you critique them they agree some don't work.

So to me the only solution is to have some sort of compromise.

[David McKeown]

I know there's a speed of sound issue there but it sounds like the sideline was kicked before the hooter went. Very tight


Sorry wrong thread

[Wildweasel74]

I thought the ball was in the air too.

[AustinPowers]

I know there's a speed of sound issue there but it sounds like the sideline was kicked before the hooter went. Very tight


Sorry wrong thread

Looked like  a backroom team member got in  his way when about to kick.

I thought it was one  of Donegal's, but it was his own!

[onefineday]

One other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game.  It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like.  Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?

Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action.  The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine.  When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it.  You see the problem?  The FRC is picking winners and losers.

No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done.  Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on.  The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game.  Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence.  They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action.  What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months.  Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance.  In other words, ruin the game.

I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong.  Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right.  I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.

The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes.  Isn't that a slippery slope?

The FRC was given a remit to make gaelic football the best amateur sport in the world to watch and play.
There are fairly rigorous governance structures in place which all the new rules had to progress through and a lesser process for subsequent tweaks.
The reason why there has been such a radical overhaul of rules all at once is because of the very strict timelines imposed by Congress on the trialling of new rules.
New rules can only be introduced once every 5 years. These trial rules which were approved by special congress last October are in place until October this year. Congress (or special congress) will vote on the final package, it is probable that what we see now will see significant amendment before a final package of changes is agreed. I don't agree that the FRC is picking winners and losers based on geographical bias, if you look at the membership, there's balanced representation from all regions and indeed the gaa president who instigated the review is an Armagh man. They are reacting to feedback and statistical evidence.
They have a statistical unit analysing a large number of games from this year and comparing versus previous year's data (I believe this unit is led by a Derry man?).
The data and the feedback from their ongoing public surveys has shaped the initial proposals and the subsequent tweaks. My understanding is that no more tweaks are proposed prior to the final package being agreed for the October vote.
If we really want to shape the decisions then I think it's important to complete the feedback surveys on an ongoing basis (it's not a one and done thing and remains open) and probably more importantly, make sure that your county's delegates to the October vote understand your county's position and can articulate that position in a manner that can influence delegates.

[JoG2]

One other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game.  It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like.  Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?

Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action.  The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine.  When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it.  You see the problem?  The FRC is picking winners and losers.

No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done.  Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on.  The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game.  Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence.  They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action.  What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months.  Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance.  In other words, ruin the game.

I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong.  Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right.  I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.

The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes.  Isn't that a slippery slope?

The FRC was given a remit to make gaelic football the best amateur sport in the world to watch and play.
There are fairly rigorous governance structures in place which all the new rules had to progress through and a lesser process for subsequent tweaks.
The reason why there has been such a radical overhaul of rules all at once is because of the very strict timelines imposed by Congress on the trialling of new rules.
New rules can only be introduced once every 5 years. These trial rules which were approved by special congress last October are in place until October this year. Congress (or special congress) will vote on the final package, it is probable that what we see now will see significant amendment before a final package of changes is agreed. I don't agree that the FRC is picking winners and losers based on geographical bias, if you look at the membership, there's balanced representation from all regions and indeed the gaa president who instigated the review is an Armagh man. They are reacting to feedback and statistical evidence.
They have a statistical unit analysing a large number of games from this year and comparing versus previous year's data (I believe this unit is led by a Derry man?).
The data and the feedback from their ongoing public surveys has shaped the initial proposals and the subsequent tweaks. My understanding is that no more tweaks are proposed prior to the final package being agreed for the October vote.
If we really want to shape the decisions then I think it's important to complete the feedback surveys on an ongoing basis (it's not a one and done thing and remains open) and probably more importantly, make sure that your county's delegates to the October vote understand your county's position and can articulate that position in a manner that can influence delegates.

Up Derry!

@ Eoin, "both organisations have one goal.....ruin the game."

Really?

Rules need tweaking and 1 major one (long lottery kickouts) scrapped, but it's a much much better spectacle atm imo... I've started watching more games again, the last 10 years it was only really games I had an emotional attachment to

[onefineday]

Up Derry!

Johnny Bradley of Glen afaik

[onefineday]

The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game.  Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence.  They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action.  What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months.  Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance.

Just on that nfl point, yes changes are made on an ongoing basis to make the game more attractive to watch (that's sort of the rationale behind spectator sports), but to say the balance is gone in nfl would be a massive misstatement. The old adage about defence winning titles is as true today as it was 50 years ago. The last two Superbowl winners have been first or thereabouts in total defence, whilst barely breaking into the top 10 in offence.

[twohands!!!]

One other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game.  It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like.  Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?

The GAA rules process has never been more democratic and more open to taking feedback and input from everyone.
I'm nearly sure it was close enough to 10,000 individuals responsed to the initial surveys.

The whole survey and feedback process has meant that the FRC have verifiable evidence that the majority of those interested enough in the rules of the game to bother filling out their shortish surveys have been massively in favour of the rule changes.

What really troubles me is that numerous smaller counties have seen their championship season end and it isn't even May!  They're dropped into a tier two championship that no one really cares about.  At least the backdoor system gave them a second chance and the opportunity of playing numerous championship games.

The fact that the players from the counties actually involved in the Tailteann Cup were massively in favour of it when it was introduced and I haven't seen any calls whatsoever for a return to the old backdoor championship structure leads me to believe that this shouldn't be something troubling you at all. Players might have some grumbles about the ins-and-outs of various details about the Tailteann Cup (the lack of promotion is a big one) but literally none of the ones I've talked to have every indicated any interest in going back to the old system. Any chat I've heard the last few years from players in the Tailteann Cup about championship structures has pretty much all been moaning about the provincial championships. I think if the GAA actually tried to switch back to the old championship structure you would have an absolute tidal wave of players coming out protesting it.

[Captain Scarlet]

I think the 3 up and tap and go are great.

Some of the more finicky rules frustrate people eg the 4m after the mark.

I know all the giving out about the 50m bit it has sped the game up.
Maybe 20m is a fairer punishment though.

I thought the 2 pointer would pull teams out to the edges of the D and allow more goal chances but not really happening.

It could go and the arc in general for kickouts is up for debate. If you can't pass it back to the keeper forwards can press and force it long anyways.

[EoinW]

One other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game.  It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like.  Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?

Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action.  The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine.  When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it.  You see the problem?  The FRC is picking winners and losers.

No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done.  Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on.  The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game.  Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence.  They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action.  What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months.  Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance.  In other words, ruin the game.

I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong.  Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right.  I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.

The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes.  Isn't that a slippery slope?

The FRC was given a remit to make gaelic football the best amateur sport in the world to watch and play.
There are fairly rigorous governance structures in place which all the new rules had to progress through and a lesser process for subsequent tweaks.
The reason why there has been such a radical overhaul of rules all at once is because of the very strict timelines imposed by Congress on the trialling of new rules.
New rules can only be introduced once every 5 years. These trial rules which were approved by special congress last October are in place until October this year. Congress (or special congress) will vote on the final package, it is probable that what we see now will see significant amendment before a final package of changes is agreed. I don't agree that the FRC is picking winners and losers based on geographical bias, if you look at the membership, there's balanced representation from all regions and indeed the gaa president who instigated the review is an Armagh man. They are reacting to feedback and statistical evidence.
They have a statistical unit analysing a large number of games from this year and comparing versus previous year's data (I believe this unit is led by a Derry man?).
The data and the feedback from their ongoing public surveys has shaped the initial proposals and the subsequent tweaks. My understanding is that no more tweaks are proposed prior to the final package being agreed for the October vote.
If we really want to shape the decisions then I think it's important to complete the feedback surveys on an ongoing basis (it's not a one and done thing and remains open) and probably more importantly, make sure that your county's delegates to the October vote understand your county's position and can articulate that position in a manner that can influence delegates.

Thank you for clarifying the situation.