Sean Brady Steps Down

[supersarsfields]

But we all could have previously existed in a different format

Were you Betamax?

No he was "The Real Tony Fearon".

[T Fearon]

Surely fear of punishment governs a lot of our modus operandi,like keeping the civil law?

[Zip Code]

[Lar Naparka]

Surely fear of punishment governs a lot of our modus operandi,like keeping the civil law?

Does it f**k?
Did the fear of eternal punishment, in the place where you don't need to worry about fuel bills, ever stop  Brady and the likes? After all,  they went about breaking the laws of (their) God and Man for years and years.
Were they gambling that their  luck would hold and they'd manage to tell Holy God they were sorry  before setting off to meet Peter outside the pearly gates.
What do you think Tony?

[Man Marker]

It is ever evolving, purgatory, meat on a Friday, original sin etc - all madey uppy stuff.

Perhaps one of the faithful can clarify but from what I can gather:

Imaculate Conception - the official line is they are sticking with that. To claim that God sent his only begotten son down to earth means they have to stick to that one. Although there is a fair amount of glossing over this requires of the whole Bethlehem story.
Purgatory - again the official line is sticking with this one. The aul fast tracking indulgences are not available though.
Meat on a Friday - sticking to it but making no attempt to to enforce. You can buy a ham sandwich in the vatican on a Friday (I kid you not) and some South American bishops decreed that anything that lived part of the time in water was in fact fish and could be eaten on a friday. The poor otter was hunted to extinction on this basis.
Original sin - sticking to that one also. In addition to preaching this horrific concept this ties the church to the literal truth of the Book of Genesis.

It horrible and laughable in equal measure

I've addressed Limbo before- it was never an official teaching. It was more a supposition that became a popular way of dealing with an uncertain situation - death before infant baptism. The Church has since defined this- not sure what the whole big hulabaloo is about.... but then of course you need something to complain about.

You can't go off and do whatever you like and then rely on the fact that you can then repent. That isn't true repentance if you knowingly and willingly sin and then repent in an effort to receive mercy. You might be that stupid but God isn't....

Do you believe in the Immaculate Conception?

Just as well Mary and Joseph didn't have Jesus back in Catholic Ireland.

Firstly when Mary fell pregnant, Josephs family would have ensured he'd no more contact with the harlot, she'd have been dispatched off to the local Magdelene laundry to give birth to the saviour as it would have looked bad on the family.
Whilst in the laundry Mary would have been treated like a slave, the baby Jesus would have been treated like a sub human being,  lucky to survive the place and possibly despatched off to America or Australia for adoption or some other borstal to be buggered by the holy fathers, eh.

Unfortunately v true, did any of you watch the programme on the other night about this, it was a hard watch. The catholic institutional church is disgusting.

[T Fearon]

It was unfortunate that the Church had to deal with unwanted (by their parents/families) children, and did the best they could for them, notwithstanding the abuse in some cases.By the cut of their gibs most of these people are doing very well thank you, but I suppose they'll never thank the Church for taking them in when their own familes even, didn't want to know.

When you think of it, with drunkeness and other failings, parenthood in Ireland generally was lousy back in the day

[AhNowRef]

Just as well Mary and Joseph didn't have Jesus back in Catholic Ireland.

Firstly when Mary fell pregnant, Josephs family would have ensured he'd no more contact with the harlot, she'd have been dispatched off to the local Magdelene laundry to give birth to the saviour as it would have looked bad on the family.
Whilst in the laundry Mary would have been treated like a slave, the baby Jesus would have been treated like a sub human being,  lucky to survive the place and possibly despatched off to America or Australia for adoption or some other borstal to be buggered by the holy fathers, eh.[/b]

Thats a very good and very apt point ... especially after watching a show on TV last night .. "Irelands Lost Babies" .... Absolutely Horrific stuff ... How any human being can perpetrate these acts or be an apologist or in any way condone someone who has had a hand in this type of thing is way beyond me.

Many people in these institutions are still raging against the tide here no matter what public perception they try to portray .. They seem to shed crocodile tears (much like Brady) after the fact but all the while try to wiggle out of admitting anything (until they're found out and have no choice) or giving information that could help .. even their apologies in many cases seem insincere !!

The show mentioned that a home for children in Tuam ran by Nuns from 1925-1961 had been bulldozed and they later found the skeletons of 800 children in the grounds ... Thats 800 kids died from malnutrition, mistreatment etc.. in 36 years ..... simply unbelievable !!

No parents to blame here... I guess some twisted minds may think it was their own fault eh :-( !!

Now lets say a priest had been in the home one day and lets say he wasn't one of the abuser types, lets say he saw abuse or maybe heard of abuse directly from a child and then went on to swear that child to secrecy upon the fires of hell (basically scare the living shit out of the kid .. as if he wouldn't be petrified already!) ... Then he tells his superior and goes happily about his business (career path) for many years later .. all the while not really knowing if anything had been done to rectify the situation or not .. actually probably knowing that the abuser(s) were still working away as priests/nuns...
Then many years later, after several denials & years of vigorous attempts to stop the truth coming out, the truth does come out but somehow this man (priest or possibly a cardinal by now) refuses to accept that he should have done more and that he was essentially morally corrupt and simply states over & over again .... I reported it .... "I did my duty" , as they would say at the nuremburg trials .. it didnt get them off but it seems to work pretty well within the Catholic church in Ireland!!

Brady should at least be ashamed of himself for putting career ahead of lives but I dont see the humility in him ... If he had humility he would have admitted his errors as major errors ... Maybe he will someday!!

People who back up abusers or facilitators have contributed to the long problems we see within the catholic church ... If people had the balls and decency NOT to support these people they would have been eradicated a long time ago ... But instead the catholic institution and its more naive/brainwashed followers created a safe haven for them ... and the terribly sad thing is that while it has improved, its still going on and you can be damned sure about that !!  ...

Its fairly unbelievable to me that the blinded fanatics and apologists dont realise that they're doing more harm to their own Church than good! .. Men like Diarmuid Martin are the only hope for the Catholic Church in Ireland .. pity there arent more like him!

[AhNowRef]

It was unfortunate that the Church had to deal with unwanted (by their parents/families) children, and did the best they could for them, notwithstanding the abuse in some cases.By the cut of their gibs most of these people are doing very well thank you, but I suppose they'll never thank the Church for taking them in when their own familes even, didn't want to know.

When you think of it, with drunkeness and other failings, parenthood in Ireland generally was lousy back in the day

You are a real little treasure aren't you !!  .. Again, blame the families and suggest the children should be thankful for their torture .. Nice one you !!

As you know, it was the church itself who made these girls & families feel so ashamed in first place that they had to be hidden away ... And in many cases the church basically stole the children against the mothers will, a mother who was "locked" in an institution at the time... and for what crime exactly?
It was also the church who tortured and abused them (and their mothers) and sold them for coin .. .. And then to compound matters they lied and blocked at every opportunity to stop the poor mothers and children reuniting when they came looking for each other ... Scum suckers all the way for anyone involved in any of this, whether directly or indirectly!

As usual, your points seem to blame everyone but the actual perpetrators .. Disgusting stuff once again!!

I must say, listening to you is like listening to Anjem Choudary .. Did you both go to the same "FundeMENTAL school of inappropriate sycophantic adoration" by any chance    ... Pity you didnt Major in Islam like him - It would be one less nut for the Catholic Church !!

[Zip Code]

It was unfortunate that the Church had to deal with unwanted (by their parents/families) children, and did the best they could for them, notwithstanding the abuse in some cases.By the cut of their gibs most of these people are doing very well thank you, but I suppose they'll never thank the Church for taking them in when their own familes even, didn't want to know.

When you think of it, with drunkeness and other failings, parenthood in Ireland generally was lousy back in the day

Your parents have done a fine job, they must be really proud of you.

[The Iceman]

We're a suspicious bunch the Irish. Fortune tellers, magpies, black cats, lucky charms and the like. unfortunately this has carried over into Christianity in Ireland amoung Catholics. It's an old suspicious faith that you would liken to Latin America (spent a lot of time there).
I don't think it's a true reflection of what Catholicism is supposed to be. It's more about acts and works and checking boxes out of fear than it is about relationship and acts driven by love. I think that's real Catholicism. It's what is in the catechism and it's what is supposed to be passed on.
Somewhere along the line as people - we got it wrong. The suspicion carried over into our faith. Lad's like Tony are not (IMO) a true reflection of what the Church teaches. I don't believe I am either but I'm striving to get there before I die.

Tony if you are genuinely trying to make a stand you're doing a horrible job of it and just making the fence sitters and axe grinders hate the Church all the more.

I can't and wont defend the wrongdoings of the church in Ireland and around the world. But I won't abandon it either. There is no other Church. No other Eucharist. No substitute.

[easytiger95]

Posted by: The Iceman
« on: Today at 07:13:13 PM » Insert Quote
We're a suspicious bunch the Irish. Fortune tellers, magpies, black cats, lucky charms and the like. unfortunately this has carried over into Christianity in Ireland amoung Catholics. It's an old suspicious faith that you would liken to Latin America (spent a lot of time there).
I don't think it's a true reflection of what Catholicism is supposed to be. It's more about acts and works and checking boxes out of fear than it is about relationship and acts driven by love. I think that's real Catholicism. It's what is in the catechism and it's what is supposed to be passed on.
Somewhere along the line as people - we got it wrong. The suspicion carried over into our faith. Lad's like Tony are not (IMO) a true reflection of what the Church teaches. I don't believe I am either but I'm striving to get there before I die.

Tony if you are genuinely trying to make a stand you're doing a horrible job of it and just making the fence sitters and axe grinders hate the Church all the more.

I can't and wont defend the wrongdoings of the church in Ireland and around the world. But I won't abandon it either. There is no other Church. No other Eucharist. No substitute.

Brilliant post Iceman.

[muppet]

Very good post Iceman.

[T Fearon]

Iceman,I commend your post,but I have never condoned the irrefutable wrongdoings of the Church (though  you'll not find any acknowledgement here of the good things the church has done in health,education,social cohesion and morality etc,which far outweighs the harm caused by a relatively few number of perverts masquerading as clergymen).

I quite simply object to the utter demonisation of Sean Brady (who never abused anyone ) for his involvement at a relatively junior level in an investigation 40 years ago.

Also I think it's unfair to rake over events of 50 or 60 years ago,when the emphasis of the Church was penance and atonement fir sins.Life was a lot tougher in terms of punishment across the board in those days,as a young lad In primary school I was regularly on the receiving end of a cane whack across the fingers,imagine the outcry if that was happening nowadays.

[Man Marker]

It was unfortunate that the Church had to deal with unwanted (by their parents/families) children, and did the best they could for them, notwithstanding the abuse in some cases.By the cut of their gibs most of these people are doing very well thank you, but I suppose they'll never thank the Church for taking them in when their own familes even, didn't want to know.

When you think of it, with drunkeness and other failings, parenthood in Ireland generally was lousy back in the day

You are either not the brightest or simply ignorant of the fact, the reason and only reason these woman and their babies were put into these places was due to the teachings of the Catholic Church in Ireland, the attitudes and moral compasses they placed on their communities at the time, an ignorant and uneducated people led or needing a faith to help them believe or hope there was something better for them some where. Ireland was the largest practising catholic community in the world at the time. The churches influence in Irish society and politics was massive. As I said the institutional aspect of the church is bad, but at that time is was truly disgusting.

[imtommygunn]

Iceman,I commend your post,but I have never condoned the irrefutable wrongdoings of the Church (though  you'll not find any acknowledgement here of the good things the church has done in health,education,social cohesion and morality etc,which far outweighs the harm caused by a relatively few number of perverts masquerading as clergymen).

I quite simply object to the utter demonisation of Sean Brady (who never abused anyone ) for his involvement at a relatively junior level in an investigation 40 years ago.

Also I think it's unfair to rake over events of 50 or 60 years ago,when the emphasis of the Church was penance and atonement fir sins.Life was a lot tougher in terms of punishment across the board in those days,as a young lad In primary school I was regularly on the receiving end of a cane whack across the fingers,imagine the outcry if that was happening nowadays.

Astounding. Sounds like you're trivialising