Sean Brady Steps Down

[Zip Code]

Well it is a guaranteed way of producing results, and other methods,as evidenced on these threads,didn't work.

You need help.

[LCohen]

I can only relate to my own experience where two young boys were abused,told their parents,parents told the police , abuser was arrested convicted and imprisoned.I cannot understand why all parents would not have followed this simple course of action.

I wonder when all the personal experiences are aggregated what percentage of cases will the parents be aware of what was going on.

When we relate back to a narrow number of personal experiences we will get extreme examples. In the experience that I will always most vividly remember the abuser was a cleric, the report of the boy was to the clergy, the boy was rediculed in public by the clergy, the parents told to stay out of it and pressurised to not engage outside authorities, the boy committed suicide and the parents just got out of the country having seen the pressure that the church was willing to bring to bear to protect their own and hush the thing up.

Looking back on this example I can't see the church as a whole or the individual clerics coming out of it with any credit whatsoever. If you "believe" in the old good and evil dichotomy then its hard to escape the fact these clerics were very evil people indeed. A supposed moral organisation that is supposedly acting as a moral guide is much exposed when its own official commit such acts and cover up such events. 

When sharing blame around it would be important to know what the parents actually knew, what pressures they were under, who was applying that pressure and the nature of the power held at the time by those applying the pressure. Without that knowledge we run the risk of coming to what could euphemistically be desribed as "uncaring" conclusions.

Ireland was one of those societies where god fearing people where in very many incidents turned into clergy-fearing people. 

[magpie seanie]

It's depressing to read what Tony posts and realise there are many who believe similar garbage. It's not the parents who are to blame, it's the people who elevated the clergy to a position of being beyond reproach. "Don't question the priest"....

People like you Tony. People who defend the indefensible. Your position only changed yesterday when an archbishop said something. f**king pathetic.

People in all positions of authority and power HAVE to be questioned - not just the ones from organisations you don't like.

[LCohen]

They provide a template for salvation and exist in the human psyche because people (even the most committed atheists) can recite them.They form the basis of all civil and criminal laws in secular society.

Of course the resignation of Cardinal Brady will not impact directly on people's lives,people in all walks of life come and go without having a direct influence on a day to day basis on any great number of people.

Do you really believe that?

See my post a bit earlier. The 10 commandments are largely jibberish.

What is this "salvation" you mention? And in the name of Jaysus (is that commandment breach?) is all that graven images, other gods et etc a recipe for anything other that confusion and satire?? You really think that secular law is based upon the 10 commandments? How is the graven images one reflected in moder law? Are there no examples of murder been frowned upon before Moses came down the hill? Also you are aware that Moses was fine with murder and only got concerned if the victims of the murder were fellow jews? Are there any modern, secular laws that forbids the murder of citizens of the state/faith but is fine with the muder of foreigners?

Your defence of the commandments is selective and fictional

[LCohen]

If any organistaion had the track record of abuse of children and covering up the abuse of children they would be exluded as a group from the organisation and delivery of education. Effectively the organisation would be disbanded and the good elements within it would have the opportunity to re-apply for roles via alternative organisations/structures. Is it not time that the governments north and south woke up to this? 

[T Fearon]

No where has child abuse been more rampant than in families and governments.Are you saying these entities should be abolished too? Basically depraved humans are responsible for child abuse not organisations

[Zip Code]

No where has child abuse been more rampant than in families and governments.Are you saying these entities should be abolished too? Basically depraved humans are responsible for child abuse not organisations

So telling the parents will end it all then!

[LCohen]

No where has child abuse been more rampant than in families and governments.Are you saying these entities should be abolished too? Basically depraved humans are responsible for child abuse not organisations

Ok lets be rational here

Where an individual family unit is the source of the abuse then that family unit is effectively abolished - whether that is the removal of the victim for their protection or the perpretrator for their punishment/rehabilitation

Where governments are the cause of this type of abuse then yes it should abolish itself and if it doesn't then the electorate will do it for them.

I totally agree that the perpretrators of abuse are depraved. What is your view on those who do not commit the abuse but are confronted with compelling evidence of abuse and either a) say nothing, b) actively cover it up, c) act to leave the perpretrator in a position with access to children (say vulnerable children in one on one scenarios), d) move the pepretrator to a new position where this situation could arise, e) do nothing when its known that children are at risk from this type of perpetrator in this type of situation or f) presurise a victim or a family to keep quiet.

What about these people - are they depraved or what word would you use to decribe them?

When known offenders were packed off to continue their "holy orders" in Uruaquay or the Phillipines say - was that just plain racism and exposing "lesser" victims?

The church has 2 very real problems here. Firstly there is the abuse (and the shear level of it). But secondly there is (too early to say "was") the truly horrifc and completely immoral reaction to the abuse. Only the first can be blamed on the "depraved" abusers.

It would be impossible to argue that those involved in the latter are the ones to provide moral guidance

[deiseach]

Ok lets be rational here

That was your first mistake.

[AZOffaly]

Jesus lads. Again? Really?

[Zip Code]

Jesus lads. Again? Really?

Sounds like a call made by the catholic hierarchy to the abusers before moving them to another parish!

[AZOffaly]

Ouch. Cheap shot. What I'm asking is do we really need another long drawn out thread that gets absolutely nowhere?

[theskull1]

Ouch. Cheap shot. What I'm asking is do we really need another long drawn out thread that gets absolutely nowhere?

Its keeping it in the public consciousness. There's some very pertinent questions being asked here.

[johnneycool]

Ouch. Cheap shot. What I'm asking is do we really need another long drawn out thread that gets absolutely nowhere?

Its keeping it in the public consciousness. There's some very pertinent questions being asked here.

And there's absolutely no chance of them being answered.

[theskull1]

Ouch. Cheap shot. What I'm asking is do we really need another long drawn out thread that gets absolutely nowhere?

Its keeping it in the public consciousness. There's some very pertinent questions being asked here.

And there's absolutely no chance of them being answered.

No...but the silence speaks volumes