Is it finally time for two refs for all county games

[Dangleberrys]

Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

And?

My point is that forwards pull and drag too.  this was aimed at the view that only backs foul...... so yeah

[Itchy]

I think they should watch back the games after and give yellows and reds out for stuff the ref missed. If all that crsp was took care of maybe the ref might have an easier time making calls.

[David McKeown]

At the top level the game, the sport is too fast and too professional for amateur refs. Is it time for professional refs? An additional ref may help as a ref closer to the decision might have more chance of getting it right and less chance of being conned by a cute player.

Also on the rule about 2/3/4 etc men tackles. The rule is a player(s) May tackle an opponent for the ball so there is nothing wrong with multiple defenders tackling and the offensive player should be blown for over carrying if they have over carried

on that last point Dave. Show me footage of 2/3/4 men all tackling the ball at the same time. Dont even think it is physically possible without the player in possession getting slapped, which is a foul

The rule doesn't say they have to tackle the ball only that a player in possession may be tackled by an opponent or opponents. If no individual defender is fouling then it's not a foul simply because there are three or four of them there

The tackle is defined in the official rules as 'the tackle is aimed at the ball, not the man'. A plethora of men slapping at a man in position is a foul all day long. Seeing a reck of men near dry riding an opponent to get the ball is a poor spectacle

The tackle is defined as "The Tackle is a skill by which a player may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. The tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. The tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact can be a Fair Charge i.e. Shoulder-to-shoulder with at least one foot on the ground. More than one player can tackle the player in possession"

So again the rule doesn't say the ball has to be tackled just that it has to be the aim of the tackle and that no deliberate contact other than a charge is allowed so again if no individual defender is fouling then the fact there are two, three or more defenders there doesn't make it a foul. 

Also as stated in the definition, the tackle is a skill just like any other skill in the game and well organised defences can be just as interesting as any man to man system of yesteryear. 

To avoid multiple men tackling, move the ball quickly and make sure the man in possession always has plenty of options and doesn't have to go into contact.

[sligoman2]

but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden.

And practically all of that happened on Sunday both on and off the ball most of which was missed by the refs

[johnneycool]

but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden.

And practically all of that happened on Sunday both on and off the ball most of which was missed by the refs

I'd say the referee didn't miss them, just didn't blow for them as he'd have the whistle jammed in his mouth all day and be castigated from all and sundry for not letting the play flow.

What's a referee to do?

Sure just look at what happened when the Mayo lad kicked out at the Kerry lad and got the red card. We'd a gobshite commentator and his sidekick saying it was very harsh and not in the spirit of the game whatever that means. A few days later the red card is rescinded due to a technicality, what sort of message does that send out to referees?

[sligoman2]

but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden.

And practically all of that happened on Sunday both on and off the ball most of which was missed by the refs

I'd say the referee didn't miss them, just didn't blow for them as he'd have the whistle jammed in his mouth all day and be castigated from all and sundry for not letting the play flow.

What's a referee to do?

Sure just look at what happened when the Mayo lad kicked out at the Kerry lad and got the red card. We'd a gobshite commentator and his sidekick saying it was very harsh and not in the spirit of the game whatever that means. A few days later the red card is rescinded due to a technicality, what sort of message does that send out to referees?

Does anyone remember how far Deegan was away from the incident?  Would he have made the red card decision if he knew Keegan didn't make contact?  I still don't understand how it was overturned if the rule say even an attempt at kicking is a red?  What was the technicality that allowed him to play...

[magpie seanie]

but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden.

And practically all of that happened on Sunday both on and off the ball most of which was missed by the refs

I'd say the referee didn't miss them, just didn't blow for them as he'd have the whistle jammed in his mouth all day and be castigated from all and sundry for not letting the play flow.

What's a referee to do?

Sure just look at what happened when the Mayo lad kicked out at the Kerry lad and got the red card. We'd a gobshite commentator and his sidekick saying it was very harsh and not in the spirit of the game whatever that means. A few days later the red card is rescinded due to a technicality, what sort of message does that send out to referees?

Does anyone remember how far Deegan was away from the incident?  Would he have made the red card decision if he knew Keegan didn't make contact?  I still don't understand how it was overturned if the rule say even an attempt at kicking is a red?  What was the technicality that allowed him to play...

What I heard was that Deegan Coldrick put him down for "kicking with minimal force" in his report. Video evidence showed no contact made. Therefore proved referee's report was incorrect so overturned suspension. Kicking and attempting the kick are the same by the rules but by just putting down kicking Deegan Coldrick left the door open for this to be overturned. A surprising mistake for such an experienced official to make.....

[Jinxy]

Deegan?

[J OGorman]

Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

And?

My point is that forwards pull and drag too.  this was aimed at the view that only backs foul...... so yeah

eh? obviously you're a deep thinker. So I'll just let you get on with your thinking

[magpie seanie]

Sorry, it wasn't Deegan. It was Coldrick.

[Jinxy]

Just imagine TWO Duffys on the one field.

[From the Bunker]

Just imagine TWO Duffys on the one field.

Twice as bad!

[fearglasmor]

Doesn't matter. The GAA and rules/laws are incompatible.
Hard decisions are often made on sentiment and personal interpretation rather than rules.
Not the referees fault that no one would tolerate literal application of whats written as "rules"

[J OGorman]

At the top level the game, the sport is too fast and too professional for amateur refs. Is it time for professional refs? An additional ref may help as a ref closer to the decision might have more chance of getting it right and less chance of being conned by a cute player.

Also on the rule about 2/3/4 etc men tackles. The rule is a player(s) May tackle an opponent for the ball so there is nothing wrong with multiple defenders tackling and the offensive player should be blown for over carrying if they have over carried

on that last point Dave. Show me footage of 2/3/4 men all tackling the ball at the same time. Dont even think it is physically possible without the player in possession getting slapped, which is a foul

The rule doesn't say they have to tackle the ball only that a player in possession may be tackled by an opponent or opponents. If no individual defender is fouling then it's not a foul simply because there are three or four of them there

The tackle is defined in the official rules as 'the tackle is aimed at the ball, not the man'. A plethora of men slapping at a man in position is a foul all day long. Seeing a reck of men near dry riding an opponent to get the ball is a poor spectacle

The tackle is defined as "The Tackle is a skill by which a player may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. The tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. The tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact can be a Fair Charge i.e. Shoulder-to-shoulder with at least one foot on the ground. More than one player can tackle the player in possession"

So again the rule doesn't say the ball has to be tackled just that it has to be the aim of the tackle and that no deliberate contact other than a charge is allowed so again if no individual defender is fouling then the fact there are two, three or more defenders there doesn't make it a foul. 

Also as stated in the definition, the tackle is a skill just like any other skill in the game and well organised defences can be just as interesting as any man to man system of yesteryear. 

To avoid multiple men tackling, move the ball quickly and make sure the man in possession always has plenty of options and doesn't have to go into contact.

I completely appreciate tackling is a skill. I was a defender myself. The first bit in bold, the slapping etc is forbidden, ie a foul. How many times have you seen 3/4/5 men all tackling the ball? Its pretty much physically impossible without the man in possession getting slapped about surely? To me, its a foul pretty much everytime.
Tackling is the biggest issue for refs. How many times would you watch a match a tackle happens and you think, whats he gonna give? a: a free to the man in possession or b: penalise for over carrying. 4 men tackling a man might be OK one time, 2 mins later its a foul. Game after game its the same.

For me, Id allow only one man to tackle a player. The game should be skills lead, tackling, shooting , passing etc, with the brut force scrum like tackling sidelined . Trial it at least

[blewuporstuffed]

Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

And?

My point is that forwards pull and drag too.  this was aimed at the view that only backs foul...... so yeah

thats is a whole separate issue in my view.
What is generally deemed a foul in one are of the field , would never be given in another.
We always get complaints about the treatment forwards get ( and maybe rightly so in some situations) but the amount of fouling  forwards can get away with at times is unreal.
the same with the application of  cards.
its got to the stage now where ANY foul by a defender is a yellow card, or at least a  tick, whereas if its a forward fouling a  defender coming out, it needs to be a serious foul or about his 10th offence in order for him to get a card.
its a serious area of inconstancy.