Down Club Hurling & Football

[Mourne Rover]

Ambrose must be one of the most unlucky players in Ireland, after two cruciates, a metatarsal and a ruptured spleen in the space of about four seasons. The loss of his spleen leaves him vulnerable to other infections, which seems to be a bigger problem than the recovery from the last cruciate operation. It would be very difficult to put a timescale on his progress, and the qualfiers are likely to come too soon, but his determination is not in question and he deserves some good fortune along the way.

[goldenyears]

Aidan Carr doesnt live in London - he moved there at the end of last season with work when the season ended, but has been at home since xmas! there is so much bull shit / half truths on this board with people that hear half a story then post it up as gospel truth, sickens my hole 

[whitegoodman]

Ambrose may be too determined for his own good!!

I was told that he would have been very close to playing a part last saturday night only he went and played 40 mins for the club some 6 wks ago when he was told not to ( understandable given the situation the club find themselves in ).  Basically he went for too much too soon and it set him back a bit.  If there are no further setbacks he could play a part in the qualifiers , maybe not the first round but possibly the second if we are lucky enough to get through the first.

Midfield is a massive problem and I can understand people craving Dan to go back to midfield.  My point would be that our full back line would be a lot worse without Dan in it than our midfield is without Dan in it.  Do people remember the trouble we had with the position before Dan made it his own.  I also was told that Dan wants to stay at FB, he is now comfortable in the position and doesnt want to be constantly moved around to fix a hole which is understandable.

IMO we need to stick with Dan there and  replace Fitzpatrick with either Colgen or Murphy or move Murphy to wing back and put Rooney in the middle.  Even if Ambrose is fit to play a part by the start of July it could be the end of August before he is ready to start a game by which stage it could be too late.

[Joe Umbrella (hey)]

FFS would people stop whing on about Ambrose. The lad is still trying to recover from serious injury. Did you happen to see his two brief club appearances this season? We as Down supporters should only be grateful if we see him back next year. Do you seriously think he will walk back into the team and continue on from where he left off last year.

King and Fitzpatrick are the best we have at the minute apart from Big Dan who is also our best option at full back. I'm a big fan of Colgan but he's a CHB not a midfielder, whilst Murph is a half back but would add extra mobility at midfield.

As for Aidan Carr, who would you drop? Maginn,Hughes, M Clarke, Coulter,Poland, or McComiskey? The lads not good enough for the h/f line at the moment but would be an option if any of the half forwards get injured. 

[whitegoodman]

Who is whing about ambrose?

People are interesting as to how far away from fitness he is and I gave info which I am led to believe is accurate.  I would be fairly optimistic that he will play championship football this year and I would say he himself is very optimistic of making an impact this year.

Regarding Aidan Carr, IMO he is easily worth a place on the panel and would be the first half forward sub i would be bringing in from the bench.  He is however not an option for the half back line, the thought of Aidan Carr and Kevin McKernan on the same half back line scares the byjesus out of me!!

[NP 76]

Ballyholland 3 -06 Saval 0 - 09 . Paul murphy had a good game at mid field yet again strong when the pressure was on  .Good result for Ballyholland tonight

[whitegoodman]

Did Murtagh start ?

Big win for Harps, after a promising start they were starting to struggle a bit.

[NP 76]

Rony started at mid field along with Murphy but moved into half forward . Played out the field more tonight and worked well as a link man with Robbie White .  I was told by a Longstone man at the match that Ambrose played for 30 mins one night in a club game and never left the house for 3 days after it . I think there is a role for Aiden Carr on the Down panel he can break a tackle , hit frees accurately and most of all can kick pass with ease which is something very few of the rest of the lads can do bar Martin Clarke . Murphy is abetter option at half back or mid field than Anton Mc Ardle . I said before we need a chb that plays chb not marking space . Although Dan lost Carke for the goal the damage was done by Tony Kernan Who had a free catch on the edge of the square . The nearest man to him was Mc Kernan who looked lost didnt know wheter to mark the man or not. When you watch it again the push on Benny was a turning point It would of been a level game instead they went up the field and made it a 2 point game .

[whitegoodman]

That is a strange one Rony starting at midfield, would be far more dangerous in FFL imo especially at club level.

Agree with those points about Down match, murphy def a better option than mccardle at midfield.  McKernan is a problem, u could maybe get away with him if we had better defenders around him but we dont, is he too good a "footballer" to drop, I just dont no, its a tricky one??

Also agree with the benny push, in fairness he should have punched it over the bar but his natural instincts were to go for the goal.  It def was a turning point, that and a missed from free from marty and missed chance from Rooney could have pushed us on.  However u cant play for 30 mins out of 70 and expect to win.

[NP 76]

No white good man you are right you cant affard to switch off at all you will not get away with playing for 25 to 30 mins . Mc Kernan is a great attacking back but my thoughts would be that chb is there to stop them driving through the middle and should act as an anchor . To be fair Colgan played this role perfect last year although a bit slow he knows that his primary job is to defend this steadied the defence last year . Mc kernan was dropped last year and it was the kick in the backside he needed . We dont have as big of pool of talent available as we would like to think but i havent seen any one to date that you would say should be on the county . we have too many nice footballers and not enough hard hitters this is where Garvey really was missed the other night to lay down a marker . You cant expect big Kalum to do all the hitting on his own

[PAULD123]

We all know McKernan is more an attacker than a defender and we all know that he is too good to be dropped. But personally I don't see it as a massive problem. I think the issue the other night was simply that we gave away so much midfield possession that Armagh were able to launch continual attacks. If we had won midfield Kevin would not have been under pressure defensively. If we had won midfield I firmly believe Armagh would have scored 4-5 points less and we would have scored at least 2-3 more. We would now be debating a Down victory and no one would be complaining about McKernan's defending. In fact if possession was held at the middle Kevin probably would have been free to move forward and attack.

Is Paul Murphy really an option as a midfielder? Would he compete with the best midfielders in the country?

Why did our midfield dominate for short periods only to fade badly? Was it that they were tired, after all, it was a very heavy pitch? If that was so then isn't there a case for temporary switching of Gordon to midfield to allow a continuity in energy in the area? Could Fitzpatrick drop to fullback for 10-15 minutes, to allow Gordon to boost midfield before switching back when Fitzpatrick was freshened? This is how our forwards operate so as to keep pressure on the opposing half back line.

[naomhmiceal]

no disrespect intended but thats madness dropping fitzpatrick into full back! What about rooney in full back did he not play there a few years ago? then that would allow Dan and King to play in midfield with the option of Fitzpatrick coming off the bench, then play Murphy or Aidan Carr in half back along with McKernan and Garvey

How would people rate Brannigan, Gerald McCartan and Benny McArdle ?Personally i would have Brannigan in Corner back along with Damien Rafferty if he gets fit again

[supersub]

We all know McKernan is more an attacker than a defender and we all know that he is too good to be dropped. But personally I don't see it as a massive problem. I think the issue the other night was simply that we gave away so much midfield possession that Armagh were able to launch continual attacks. If we had won midfield Kevin would not have been under pressure defensively. If we had won midfield I firmly believe Armagh would have scored 4-5 points less and we would have scored at least 2-3 more. We would now be debating a Down victory and no one would be complaining about McKernan's defending. In fact if possession was held at the middle Kevin probably would have been free to move forward and attack.

Is Paul Murphy really an option as a midfielder? Would he compete with the best midfielders in the country?

Why did our midfield dominate for short periods only to fade badly? Was it that they were tired, after all, it was a very heavy pitch? If that was so then isn't there a case for temporary switching of Gordon to midfield to allow a continuity in energy in the area? Could Fitzpatrick drop to fullback for 10-15 minutes, to allow Gordon to boost midfield before switching back when Fitzpatrick was freshened? This is how our forwards operate so as to keep pressure on the opposing half back line.

no disrespect intended but thats madness dropping fitzpatrick into full back! What about rooney in full back did he not play there a few years ago? then that would allow Dan and King to play in midfield with the option of Fitzpatrick coming off the bench, then play Murphy or Aidan Carr in half back along with McKernan and Garvey

How would people rate Brannigan, Gerald McCartan and Benny McArdle ?Personally i would have Brannigan in Corner back along with Damien Rafferty if he gets fit again

A lot of chopping and changing being suggested the last while which is fair enough given the result, but the fact that this team played together in these positions all of last year and most of this league campaign doing quite well for the most part would suggest the positions are appropriate for each player. I agree midfield can be hot or cold, but hopefully the lads can pursue with it and find their best form in the qualifiers. In addition the corner back spots are an issue as there are a few people injured/out of form, rafferty and g mccartan are the obvious choices for me when fit. Brannigan wouldn't be a patch on Gerard in terms of marking and Gerard is also far more comfortable on the ball.

The highlighted bit is something I disagree with, this statement would apply to maybe one or two players in each county max, and I don't think McKernan is in that bracket for us. If he is not doing the job in the position and there is another option, maybe he should be dropped. It worked out ok last year when he went from wing back to chb after being dropped. It is not a personal issue, I just don't agree with this statement of people being too good to be dropped.

[snoopdog]

FFS would people stop whing on about Ambrose. The lad is still trying to recover from serious injury. Did you happen to see his two brief club appearances this season? We as Down supporters should only be grateful if we see him back next year. Do you seriously think he will walk back into the team and continue on from where he left off last year.

King and Fitzpatrick are the best we have at the minute apart from Big Dan who is also our best option at full back. I'm a big fan of Colgan but he's a CHB not a midfielder, whilst Murph is a half back but would add extra mobility at midfield.

As for Aidan Carr, who would you drop? Maginn,Hughes, M Clarke, Coulter,Poland, or McComiskey? The lads not good enough for the h/f line at the moment but would be an option if any of the half forwards get injured.

If king and fitzpatrick are the best we have then its no wonder people are wondering about Ambrose and Wanting Dan moved out the field.

[PAULD123]

Supersub, As you said these lads have played these positions all year. The problem is that in that whole year we have seen that the midfield pairing is simply not going to cut it. This isn't a kneejerk reaction to an USFC loss. Since Kildare, we have been second in midfield in every game unless the opposition were totally hopeless. Kildare, Cork, Armagh, Mayo (2nd half), Cork, Dublin, Kerry and Armagh have dominated us.

So I think it is clear we need to address this and if Ambrose isn't the answer then Dan has to be. But of course we can't afford to totally weaken out fairly good record of preventing goals being scored. That's why I suggested a positional switch temporarily in the game to relive pressure if the midfield is tired or just not working.

I respect the comment that Fitzpatrick couldn't move to fullback but have no problem with the alternative suggested that if Gordon moves forward Rooney drops back and Fitzy goes to HB. That would be good because it would still keep Fitzy involved if needed.

I do think changing starting positions a lot would have a disruptive effect but I do not think having a bit of fluidity in the team would be a bad thing