Down Club Hurling & Football

[No1]

I think that's correct. I'd say it works in Kerry because it's a long tradition and young lads from Junior clubs grow up wanting to play for East Kerry etc.  In i quess Down lads from Saul, Kilclief, Ardglass or Bright won't really want to play together as Lecale. Can you imagine the rows over selection?

Ach come on.  Sure there is no-one from those other clubs that would get playing in front of any of our lads, do you not want them to get a chance at playing senior football at all?

[goldenyears]

DF great post! One of the best on this board in a long time.

Amalgamating in order to highlight all these so called div3 + 4 stars is a complete misnomer

Or as they say, a load of sh1te

Total fiction

[johnneycool]

That would be the crux of it

[Blue Island]

I would not dismiss this idea of amalgamating teams in division 3 and 4 out of hand. I can forsee a lot of problems in actually implementing the plan, but if in my view if the the clubs in divsion 3 & 4 want to do it, that's their business.

Many of the posts suggest that if there were players in these two divsions capable of playing at senior level, they would already stick out. To an extent that is true, but that does not account for a lot of lads who were at one stage of their early career well capable of playing at senior level, but who eventually drifted away because they were not quite good enough for the county, but could have played Senior football. I played against a lot of fellas like that at under age level who played adult football for a couple of years and give up when only six or seven were turning up for their training. Given a chance, that may offer them an outlet. I think they would struggle for a few years, but that would be expected.

I don't think neighbouring clubs hate each other so much that they could not form a team. I have absolutely no doubt that Drumaness and Teconnaught would put behind any lingering animosity they have for each other to get one over us.

[east down gael]

i agree with blue island,players from neighbouring clubs wouldn't/shouldn't let parish rivalry prevent them from performing at a level they otherwise won't achieve.also bear in mind alot of these lads would have played on school teams with guys from the neighbouring club.
   using the down juniors in the hurling is also not a great example.hurling has a different skill set and would be far harder to prepare for in comparison to football.
     if it did get the thumbs up how would it work?it couldn't just be a couple of neighbouring clubs joining together.i imagine it would be a team of junior/intermediate players from east down and likewise south down.getting on such a team would be quite an honour i'd imagine.
   the point of such an experiment would not necessarily be to unearth future county players but to give talented players the opportunity to play senior football.it may also stop lads from leaving junior clubs and moving to senior to play at a higher level.

[Square Ball]

is the u 21 squad been named?

[gorm agus bui]

is the u 21 squad been named?

Wouldn't think so as there is a trial tomorrow

[Square Ball]

is the u 21 squad been named?

Wouldn't think so as there is a trial tomorrow

are you sure Gorm? we have a game tomorrow in the u20s.

[charlieTully]

The proposal of amalgamated Division 3 and 4 clubs entering the Down SFC seemed to get good backing at Convention.

Its a terrible idea in my eyes but one which could come about in the not too distant future.

I think the logic behind it is that almost half our clubs rarely provide county players at any level.With the notable exception of the likes of Dundrum with Paul McC,half the GAA playing population is untapped.There are quality athletes and footballers in all clubs,but their lack of exposure to top class football,may be one reason why very few step up to county standard.Such a system appears to work well in Kerry,where they always seem to unearth players from junior clubs.It would have to be carefully structured to ensure fairness-especially to clubs who are capable of fielding on their own at senior level.Imagine,for example, if Kilcoo with a population of a few hundred were to be beaten in the 1st round by an amalgamation of Bredagh/Carryduff/St.Pauls with a population of 100,000.Wouldn't be easy to get a fair system,but at least this debate gets people thinking about ways of improving our county player pool.The other potential  positive for junior clubs is that it would lessen the chances of senior clubs allegedly poaching talented Junior club players,with the carrot of senior football.

In my opinion some people have a very distorted view of Division's 3 and 4. Last year was the worst standard I have seen in Division 3 in a decade whilst Division 4 is little more than a pub league.

There are four players on James McCartan's McKenna Cup panel from Divisions 3 and 4. Declan Alder is in as a keeper while Kevy Anderson, Mick Magee and Paul McComiskey are three of the outfield selections. Without a shadow of a doubt the latter three are the best three players in the bottom two Divisions. One thing they have in common is that they all have county pedigree. All three of them have played County Minor and U-21 while two of them have participated at 3rd level.

Now you tell me, how one possibly two games with a team of gather ups in the Down SFC is going to unearth county standard players from the bottom two Divisions? Answer - it's not! A couple of games a year doesn't condition a player for SFC standard football. Playing in the top tier over a number of years might.

Also, say for instance Dundrum and St Johns put in a joint team for the SFC. Not only would both these teams be training for their own Championships at the same time but the hard cold fact is that a Dundrum man wouldn't piss on a St Johns man if he was on fire and vice versa. This would be the same all over the county if neighbouring clubs joined up.

Again, there are more problems associated with such a venture. Where should the team train? Who would take the team? What jerseys should the teams wear? + the various different arguments that would arise in regard to the selection of teams etc. Most clubs in the bottom two Divisions don't have their house in order regarding structures and the like and the last thing they need to be concentrating on is some sham of a representational team. They should be focussing on improving themselves. Ultimately, what would winning a game in the Down SFC with an amalgamated team mean to the players involved? In my view - f**k all! Any player worth his salt should be giving his all to his club then his county.

If a player in the lower tiers is good enough for county football he will be recognised. There is no doubt about that. Bar Peter Withnell, players just don't spring up overnight. There is not some conspiracy out there by the county selectors to overlook players in the bottom two Divisions. The players mentioned earlier who have been picked for the 2010 county team stick out like a sore thumb in Division 3. They are head and shoulders above the standard and this is obvious in most of the games they play in over the year.

There is a far bigger gap between Division 1 and Division 3 than people think. It is basically light and day. I believe that an amalgamated team would struggle against most opposition in the SFC.

Again, going ahead with this venture won't stop the bigger clubs attempting to poach players from the lower echelons. The likes of Loughinisland, who have had a flagrant disregard for the transfer rules in our county for the past thirty years, will continue to poach players. It's in their fabric and your suggestion that this will cease has no merit.

Kerry and Cavan practice the Championship format you suggest. Thats only two counties out of 32. The reason the other 30 don't use it is because it isnt a good format. Your yearning for change seems to be based on the fact that you want to see more Junior players on the county team. Why do Junior club players have to be on county teams? What right over Division 1 and 2 players do they have to be represented on a county team? You seem to make a special case for them.

As I said before. If you are good enough, you are good enough. The players that have been picked for the Down team this year are there because they are the best players in the lower ranks. They star week in week out. When a player performs to this standard on a weekly basis he will make a county team. Not when he maybe scores 2-05 in a one off SFC game for a team of gather ups.

you can forget st johns df, youse would be amalgamated with the mighty ballykinler, like underage level, would it not make more sense for youse to do this anyway?, too small of a parish for two clubs. it seems to be quite a success at minor level.

[johnneycool]

Cork use regional teams in the hurling championship for certain and they also use round robin structures so that means talented junior hurlers are getting a good few games against senior clubs and yet again its not uncommon for lads from junior clubs to star at inter-county level. Joe deane springs to mind

[Boat Race In The Crowd]

U20 match Bredagh v Castlewellan is off due to weather

[Maiden1]

Cork use regional teams in the hurling championship for certain and they also use round robin structures so that means talented junior hurlers are getting a good few games against senior clubs and yet again its not uncommon for lads from junior clubs to star at inter-county level. Joe deane springs to mind

Plenty of standout junior players from Kerry as well.  Bomber Liston probably the most famous example.  I don't think the rivalry is as intense as is being reported here.  Sure if it was that intense then the Mayobridge and Burren players wouldn't be able to play together on the down team.  It would be a great honour for most players to play on an East Down team or a NE Down team or Lecale team even if they never played for the county.  It would only work if it was taken seriously and properly coached, not each team sends 3 or 4 players who meet up 2 days before the first round of the championship when the manager asks the players name and what position they play (like in most county trials).

Also maybe a county forward might stand out to a degree in division 3 in some games but not always (I've seen Paul McComiskey hardly get a kick in a game), a corner back playing for an unfancied team who never gives the player they are marking a touch of the ball I'm not sure they would ever get spotted.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I have supported this idea even from when it was suggested a few years ago and welcome the debate as long as it gives the fellas who may never play senior c'ship football the chance to so do.Also if it generates further interest for the clubs themselves-i.e many clubs lose players from the ages of 17-20 and never see them again then this could be a welcome development and as far as i know amongst the rest of the counties in Ulster could be a groundbreaking move.If then this has a knock-on effect of unearthing some players that could be devloped into county footballers then it can only do good--oh and one more thing look out Kilcoo and the rest- WE ARE COMING TO GET YOU!!

No harm to you mate, but Kilcoo's winning of the championship this year is the result of about 2 decades of work.

That is, 20 years of training, improving techniques, reading of the game, understanding your team-mates. The mentors learning more about tactics, coaching techniques, both physical and technical, and that is right from U-8 to senior. A learning process of about 20 years.

Championships are won in the period of February through to Sept... Not in the period starting 3 weeks before the opening round to the final.


You are only deluding yourself if you think a gather up of fellas at senior level that have never known what levels of committment it takes to win at any level, have never played alongside half their team-mates, and have only a few training sessions together with management that, no harm to them, are probably not at the races compared to most of the Div 1 coaches... are going to trouble the top clubs in the county.

[RadioGAAGAA]

DF great post! One of the best on this board in a long time.

Amalgamating in order to highlight all these so called div3 + 4 stars is a complete misnomer

Or as they say, a load of sh1te

Total fiction

A load of shite indeed.


A good player is produced from years of coaching - its far too late to try to turn them into something at senior level. Now, if the clubs mentioned looked at regular large joint training sessions for the underage teams where the county development officers were present and helping, that may make a bigger and better impact.

[Maiden1]

I have supported this idea even from when it was suggested a few years ago and welcome the debate as long as it gives the fellas who may never play senior c'ship football the chance to so do.Also if it generates further interest for the clubs themselves-i.e many clubs lose players from the ages of 17-20 and never see them again then this could be a welcome development and as far as i know amongst the rest of the counties in Ulster could be a groundbreaking move.If then this has a knock-on effect of unearthing some players that could be devloped into county footballers then it can only do good--oh and one more thing look out Kilcoo and the rest- WE ARE COMING TO GET YOU!!

No harm to you mate, but Kilcoo's winning of the championship this year is the result of about 2 decades of work.

That is, 20 years of training, improving techniques, reading of the game, understanding your team-mates. The mentors learning more about tactics, coaching techniques, both physical and technical, and that is right from U-8 to senior. A learning process of about 20 years.

Championships are won in the period of February through to Sept... Not in the period starting 3 weeks before the opening round to the final.


You are only deluding yourself if you think a gather up of fellas at senior level that have never known what levels of committment it takes to win at any level, have never played alongside half their team-mates, and have only a few training sessions together with management that, no harm to them, are probably not at the races compared to most of the Div 1 coaches... are going to trouble the top clubs in the county.

The divisional teams regurally win the Kerry Senior championship so this proves that a group of players from different junior teams can join up and beat the senior teams.  I would say the senior teams in the Kerry championship on the whole would be better than in down as well.