Down Club Hurling & Football

[stpauls]

Will Div 3 start early in 2010?i seem to remember it starting early for 2009,that correct?how much earlier?

it started in March in 2008, but didn't start until the 17th April this year. not sure when they intend to start the leagues next year though.

[washed_up]

Many thanks to Dairmuid Cahill for the excellent work he has done over recent years.His production of the Down yearbooks is second to none.I'm sure countless hours and numerous communications with the various clubs and bodies to collect the relevant material were accumulated.Good luck to him in his new post as Ulster Council delegate,and once again thank you!!

[When We Win]

Heard there was an attempt to find out who the hell was responible for agreeing to hand over a down payment of several hundred thousand pounds for land(without planning permission) to replace that lost by Bryansford with the sale of Newcastle.To this day the planning permission still has not been granted.The debate was strangled- only last week Sean OG was quoted that buisness should be conducted 'THE DOWN WAY'.What kind of people do we have as administraters with this sort of malpractice plunging us further into the red with seemingly no light at the end of the tunnel.

I assume you mean a payment from DCB to get them to leave??? I thought this was normal?!? The county board wanted the ground for their own use (make a clondyke from its sale) and needed Bryansford out of the way. They were right to ask for a payment to move, not very gaa minded but business minded. Every club needs money to operate and they took advantage of their situation. 13, has the money been paid over yet? And what was the figure? I thought plans were approved back in October time from reading the papers??

To be honest i think everyone needs to take a step back when complaining about the sale of the ground. DCB had the right idea in selling it but the market disappeared. it is not worth the same money now we all agree but they couldnt sell it without having Bryansford sorted. If the market had not collapsed i would think most would be happy with the millions they would have got. Also it is hardly the Down boards fault for the planning process being slow.

I also wonder how many on the county board know the history of the park or the deeds.. reason i say this is because Annsley owned the pitch, he gave it to the Parish on the condition it was to be used for the furtherment of sport within the newcastle area....Somewhere along the line the Church sold it to t he GAA this was fine as it was still being used for sport now the GAA wantto sell it to a retailer that breaks the agreement writin in the deeds therefore the Annsley estate if they wished could come in and take the land back......see everyday is a school day

I dont believe this is the case. Statements like that will cause uproar around the county for no reason. There are systems in the Planning service which allow old conditions to be relaxed or re-drawn. I know this because my sister got planning for a house on a old piece of scrubland which was not to be used for anything other than allotment or something. The architect did something to get around this or used some old case arguement.

So to be honest eartotheground i think your a bit of the mark with that statement. I dont think the county board would have went down this route without taking advice from the relevent experts!!! Plus i am sure there are some people in the county board who have knowledge or waken advice from others who went down this route.

to make myself clear on this point i'm not having a dig at the county board but its a fact that not many people know and no matter about planning it still does not take away from the fact that the annsley estate will have the final say on St Patricks park

Do they still even exist? I think this sort of problem is sorted out in courts these day. Sooner they sell the place and free up a few quid for adaquate training facilities in the county the better.

[6th sam]

Many thanks to Dairmuid Cahill for the excellent work he has done over recent years.His production of the Down yearbooks is second to none.I'm sure countless hours and numerous communications with the various clubs and bodies to collect the relevant material were accumulated.Good luck to him in his new post as Ulster Council delegate,and once again thank you!!

Totally agree,this man clocks in a serious amount of hours,voluntarily for a range of county activities.I have always found him genuine,reliable,and knowledgeable,especially on IT etc.The 2010 yearbook has even surpassed his previous prize winning productions.Well done,Diarmuid!

[johnneycool]

Who owns Pairc Esler

Its in a trust for the 'gaels of newry'. Two of those trustee's are appointed by Down Co Board, the other is either from Newry Shamrocks or maybe the diocese, i can't remember which.

[6th sam]

Johnnycool,you must be delighted with Gerard Monans appointment.I have always thought Galgets near miss in 2005 was an indication of the potential of Down Hurling.Last year's Ulster final performance v Antrim indicated that we have some great talent at this level.If we can harness the Ards talent and find a few more Finty Conways from this side of the water,surely we're capable of CR and USHC success.

[No1]

the other is either from Newry Shamrocks

That would explain a lot.

[Leo]

Who owns Pairc Esler

Its in a trust for the 'gaels of newry'. Two of those trustee's are appointed by Down Co Board, the other is either from Newry Shamrocks or maybe the diocese, i can't remember which.

I think you might be confusing the trustees with the pitch management. As far as I know the Trsuatees include GAA people appointed by Croke Park as well as Ulster Council. There may be a Shamrocks person appointed from within the county, I am not sure, but it would make sense to have one as they are the caretakers of the ground and do a good job of it too (apart from the awful toilets - but then this comes down to pitch management).
The legal ownership is therefore the GAA itself, the same as most county grounds, many of which have caretaker situations the same as in Newry - Omagh and Navan are two cases that come to mind.

The old ownership arguments about Park Esler will continue to be churned out by selfish but uninformed interests within Shamrocks on the one hand  and on the other  those ant-Marshes elements in the county who don't want to notice the transformation in  the ground (brought about largely by Club Down) and can't leave old animosisites behond them.
We have a great county ground in constant use for county activity from what I can see.
Stop stirring.

[johnneycool]

Who owns Pairc Esler

Its in a trust for the 'gaels of newry'. Two of those trustee's are appointed by Down Co Board, the other is either from Newry Shamrocks or maybe the diocese, i can't remember which.

I think you might be confusing the trustees with the pitch management. As far as I know the Trsuatees include GAA people appointed by Croke Park as well as Ulster Council. There may be a Shamrocks person appointed from within the county, I am not sure, but it would make sense to have one as they are the caretakers of the ground and do a good job of it too (apart from the awful toilets - but then this comes down to pitch management).
The legal ownership is therefore the GAA itself, the same as most county grounds, many of which have caretaker situations the same as in Newry - Omagh and Navan are two cases that come to mind.

The old ownership arguments about Park Esler will continue to be churned out by selfish but uninformed interests within Shamrocks on the one hand  and on the other  those ant-Marshes elements in the county who don't want to notice the transformation in  the ground (brought about largely by Club Down) and can't leave old animosisites behond them.
We have a great county ground in constant use for county activity from what I can see.
Stop stirring.

The guy who told me is neither from the Shamrocks or an anti Park Esler, in fact quite the opposite, he was explaining why there should be no concerns over the ownership as Down county board appoint two of the three trustee's so more or less had 'de facto' ownership of the ground.

Not stirring but if what others on the DB are saying about St Patricks park in Newcastle it's ultimately who holds the deeds are the owners.

[wobbller]

Many thanks to Dairmuid Cahill for the excellent work he has done over recent years.His production of the Down yearbooks is second to none.I'm sure countless hours and numerous communications with the various clubs and bodies to collect the relevant material were accumulated.Good luck to him in his new post as Ulster Council delegate,and once again thank you!!

Totally agree,this man clocks in a serious amount of hours,voluntarily for a range of county activities.I have always found him genuine,reliable,and knowledgeable,especially on IT etc.The 2010 yearbook has even surpassed his previous prize winning productions.Well done,Diarmuid!

Well said S !                 

[DownFanatic]

The proposal of amalgamated Division 3 and 4 clubs entering the Down SFC seemed to get good backing at Convention.

Its a terrible idea in my eyes but one which could come about in the not too distant future.

[6th sam]

The proposal of amalgamated Division 3 and 4 clubs entering the Down SFC seemed to get good backing at Convention.

Its a terrible idea in my eyes but one which could come about in the not too distant future.

I think the logic behind it is that almost half our clubs rarely provide county players at any level.With the notable exception of the likes of Dundrum with Paul McC,half the GAA playing population is untapped.There are quality athletes and footballers in all clubs,but their lack of exposure to top class football,may be one reason why very few step up to county standard.Such a system appears to work well in Kerry,where they always seem to unearth players from junior clubs.It would have to be carefully structured to ensure fairness-especially to clubs who are capable of fielding on their own at senior level.Imagine,for example, if Kilcoo with a population of a few hundred were to be beaten in the 1st round by an amalgamation of Bredagh/Carryduff/St.Pauls with a population of 100,000.Wouldn't be easy to get a fair system,but at least this debate gets people thinking about ways of improving our county player pool.The other potential  positive for junior clubs is that it would lessen the chances of senior clubs allegedly poaching talented Junior club players,with the carrot of senior football.

[13aside]

I have supported this idea even from when it was suggested a few years ago and welcome the debate as long as it gives the fellas who may never play senior c'ship football the chance to so do.Also if it generates further interest for the clubs themselves-i.e many clubs lose players from the ages of 17-20 and never see them again then this could be a welcome development and as far as i know amongst the rest of the counties in Ulster could be a groundbreaking move.If then this has a knock-on effect of unearthing some players that could be devloped into county footballers then it can only do good--oh and one more thing look out Kilcoo and the rest- WE ARE COMING TO GET YOU!!   

[umpire]

Many thanks to Dairmuid Cahill for the excellent work he has done over recent years.His production of the Down yearbooks is second to none.I'm sure countless hours and numerous communications with the various clubs and bodies to collect the relevant material were accumulated.Good luck to him in his new post as Ulster Council delegate,and once again thank you!!

Totally agree,this man clocks in a serious amount of hours,voluntarily for a range of county activities.I have always found him genuine,reliable,and knowledgeable,especially on IT etc.The 2010 yearbook has even surpassed his previous prize winning productions.Well done,Diarmuid!

Agree with above quotes

[DownFanatic]

The proposal of amalgamated Division 3 and 4 clubs entering the Down SFC seemed to get good backing at Convention.

Its a terrible idea in my eyes but one which could come about in the not too distant future.

I think the logic behind it is that almost half our clubs rarely provide county players at any level.With the notable exception of the likes of Dundrum with Paul McC,half the GAA playing population is untapped.There are quality athletes and footballers in all clubs,but their lack of exposure to top class football,may be one reason why very few step up to county standard.Such a system appears to work well in Kerry,where they always seem to unearth players from junior clubs.It would have to be carefully structured to ensure fairness-especially to clubs who are capable of fielding on their own at senior level.Imagine,for example, if Kilcoo with a population of a few hundred were to be beaten in the 1st round by an amalgamation of Bredagh/Carryduff/St.Pauls with a population of 100,000.Wouldn't be easy to get a fair system,but at least this debate gets people thinking about ways of improving our county player pool.The other potential  positive for junior clubs is that it would lessen the chances of senior clubs allegedly poaching talented Junior club players,with the carrot of senior football.

In my opinion some people have a very distorted view of Division's 3 and 4. Last year was the worst standard I have seen in Division 3 in a decade whilst Division 4 is little more than a pub league.

There are four players on James McCartan's McKenna Cup panel from Divisions 3 and 4. Declan Alder is in as a keeper while Kevy Anderson, Mick Magee and Paul McComiskey are three of the outfield selections. Without a shadow of a doubt the latter three are the best three players in the bottom two Divisions. One thing they have in common is that they all have county pedigree. All three of them have played County Minor and U-21 while two of them have participated at 3rd level.

Now you tell me, how one possibly two games with a team of gather ups in the Down SFC is going to unearth county standard players from the bottom two Divisions? Answer - it's not! A couple of games a year doesn't condition a player for SFC standard football. Playing in the top tier over a number of years might.

Also, say for instance Dundrum and St Johns put in a joint team for the SFC. Not only would both these teams be training for their own Championships at the same time but the hard cold fact is that a Dundrum man wouldn't piss on a St Johns man if he was on fire and vice versa. This would be the same all over the county if neighbouring clubs joined up.

Again, there are more problems associated with such a venture. Where should the team train? Who would take the team? What jerseys should the teams wear? + the various different arguments that would arise in regard to the selection of teams etc. Most clubs in the bottom two Divisions don't have their house in order regarding structures and the like and the last thing they need to be concentrating on is some sham of a representational team. They should be focussing on improving themselves. Ultimately, what would winning a game in the Down SFC with an amalgamated team mean to the players involved? In my view - f**k all! Any player worth his salt should be giving his all to his club then his county.

If a player in the lower tiers is good enough for county football he will be recognised. There is no doubt about that. Bar Peter Withnell, players just don't spring up overnight. There is not some conspiracy out there by the county selectors to overlook players in the bottom two Divisions. The players mentioned earlier who have been picked for the 2010 county team stick out like a sore thumb in Division 3. They are head and shoulders above the standard and this is obvious in most of the games they play in over the year.

There is a far bigger gap between Division 1 and Division 3 than people think. It is basically light and day. I believe that an amalgamated team would struggle against most opposition in the SFC.

Again, going ahead with this venture won't stop the bigger clubs attempting to poach players from the lower echelons. The likes of Loughinisland, who have had a flagrant disregard for the transfer rules in our county for the past thirty years, will continue to poach players. It's in their fabric and your suggestion that this will cease has no merit.

Kerry and Cavan practice the Championship format you suggest. Thats only two counties out of 32. The reason the other 30 don't use it is because it isnt a good format. Your yearning for change seems to be based on the fact that you want to see more Junior players on the county team. Why do Junior club players have to be on county teams? What right over Division 1 and 2 players do they have to be represented on a county team? You seem to make a special case for them.

As I said before. If you are good enough, you are good enough. The players that have been picked for the Down team this year are there because they are the best players in the lower ranks. They star week in week out. When a player performs to this standard on a weekly basis he will make a county team. Not when he maybe scores 2-05 in a one off SFC game for a team of gather ups.