Down Club Hurling & Football

[snoopdog]

That's a great win. Well done lads.

A very lucky win. Some dreadful kick passing and shooting by Down made a game of it.
Lucky to come away with the 2 point.
Daniel Guinness the best player for Down.
They will need to be much better in 2 weeks if they are to beat Westmeath. 2 wins out of 2 but a lot to work on. Its just about getting out of this division. Down tend to be dragged down to the level of so called lower teams.

[Aristo 60]

Thanks snoop

[Splash]

Thanks for the detailed reply Splash. Genuinely I'm not trying to wind our hurling fraternity up. Well, maybe only a little!

But I would explain that anytime I encounter suggestions for "forced" hurling, it does light a little fire inside me. You're very careful above to propose that what you would like to see is in no way compulsory, in no way forced through. So I'll not refer to it in those terms again, only to say that I still cannot help  interpreting "every primary school" as something that would require a dogmatic approach pressed hard from on high. It would require a stick, per se, rather than a carrot.

Why does this light a fire inside me?

Well I'll explain it from my current perspective. I'm entering my third consecutive season of under-14 football coaching. In that time I've worked with upwards on 60 boys across every ability range, from 5 distinct school years, the vast majority of them having started school life in Ballyholland PS.

Of those young players, north of 50 of them play competitive soccer.

Bear in mind these things. They don't get exposed to soccer in their primary school.  For the overwhelming majority of them, the same applies in post primary school. There are as good as no soccer facilities for them in Newry: all the clubs lean on GAA school AstroTurf for training. Even our biggest and most successful teams, with the exception of Newry City, have no club rooms for younger players. Every Saturday morning in life there's a procession of Newry parents heading to Lisburn, Belfast, Moira, Crumlin and Craigavon to play matches against teams of lads from many miles away, who they don't know, and as such don't have anything approaching a rivalry / bragging rights. Every season it seems half or more of them change clubs, often for a lesser challenge / guaranteed spot in a team. I've watched first hand that some of the coaching is very good, but game day messages, well they almost invariably applaud getting rid of it. Personally I find it hard to applaud a young lad for kicking a ball over a sideline but I'd guess my feelings on soccer are similar to yours on Gaelic Football; I do enjoy it but not that much. 

And to top all that, as a predominantly winter sport, they play most of their season in awful weather on heavy pitches.

Yet despite all these disadvantages (for boys in the Newry area), the lure of soccer actually seems to be growing year on year, even among the rural fringes where clubs like ourselves, Saval, Glenn, Drumgath are the cornerstones of the community.

So much so that we are a point that I would expect over half of the lads I've worked with would pick soccer every single day over Gaelic Football.

And while not ignoring the fact that the bright lights and marketing of the Premier League play a significant role, I fundamentally believe this growth is being driven by families. Parental influence is key.

Hence, I understand and even admire your determination that hurling can and will grow across our County with a sustained effort on influencing /recruiting players at a young age. But if Gaelic Football - even with all the advantages we've created for ourselves in these areas over the past 100 years -  finds it difficult to secure the hearts and minds of these young people, then the sceptic in me, just can't see it being the springboard for hurling that you can see.

Mainly because if parents aren't interested in hurling, then their children are unlikely to give the game the focus required to being them up to (anywhere near) the level of those who come from hurling families.

Even though it initially seems back to front, if you really want to change the culture of hurling in Down it has to be to find ways to cajole, snare, interest young parents and those about to become parents. Then the children have a half a chance.

——

Footnote 1: By adulthood, soccer is a hobby and Gaelic Games are a vocation. But our sports are becoming more vocational at an earlier age these days, which means may kids are naturally going to sway against, and I acknowledge I'm part of this problem.

Footnote 2: Gaelic football has two extraordinary advantages over soccer in the Newry area. The first being that we enjoy a summer sport, which far from guarantees the weather but it's miles above what soccer goes through. The second being that we provide proper home matches in the heart of our communities. It's a stepping stone for young lads to become important parts of their community.

This season our clubs have approved a calendar that sees under-14 football taking place every other week. Which means one home game a month over the summer for all these young lads. They might as well go to Lisburn every week.

Somebody please make sense of why this is happening, for I can't.

No problem, Wobbler. Happy to discuss.

When I say every school, I do mean every school, including those in Bangor, Donaghadee, Hillsborough, and other regions of the county.
But that is very much a discussion for another time.
Although I do think it would very much be a doable thing- if given the right preparation.
And very much the carrot rather than the stick, even if not everyone likes carrot...

I admire your dedication towards the Ballyholland underage setup. Fair play.

I am still not entirely sure why offering the opportunity to more kids to play hurling is lighting the fire in you, as you say.

I do appreciate the difficulties football has when competing with soccer in Newry.
I personally have zero interest in soccer, and wouldn't watch the World Cup if it was in my garden.

Regarding the status of soccer clubs in County Down, and the decisions made by soccer players regarding where to play and who to play for, I have no opinion.

I do appreciate Ballyholland in particular seems to find itself competing with soccer more than most.
My own club, of course, has players interested in soccer, but it would be nowhere near the same numbers as you describe in Ballyholland; I'd be very confident most would choose the GAA if asked.

Nonetheless, I don't see how this has any real relevance to the expansion of hurling. I appreciate it is another distraction, but I don't think that the presence of soccer is any more relevant to the expansion of hurling than the existence of basketball or tennis.

Football has any number of advantages- it has the tradition, it doesn't require much equipment, there are more outlets, etc.
But this does not mean hurling has no chance to grow.

It's also worth pointing out, there are folks who couldn't care less if football was forgotten about, and hurling took centre stage. They're in the minority, without doubt, but there are people out there with no interest in football who would love the opportunity to play hurling.

I agree that one of the key things is to encourage hurling in adults, not just children.
This is, if anything, an even bigger challenge.

It's challenging, but in Antrim over the past few years, the likes of Larne, Wolfe Tones, Lough Mór, and Loughbeg have all introduced senior hurling.
It's not easy, but it is incredibly beneficial and worthwhile, and funnily enough, it is easier done when a number of clubs introduce adult hurling at once.

Ultimately, I don't think anyone believes that hurling will grow rapidly or easily.
But as Johnny Cool said, I'm not sure how denying kids the chance of playing hurling at school will impact the Ballyholland U14s choosing between football and soccer.

I understand your frustrations if soccer were to overtake football in Ballyholland, but I don't think that because soccer is getting more popular in the area, that that's a good reason to prohibit hurling.
I believe Newry needs another sort of Archdeacon Hugh Esler figure to reinvigorate football in the region, but that is another discussion altogether.

I'm still not sure where you draw the connection between providing the chance to play the game to forcing it onto people, nor where you find enjoying hurling to be counter to human instinct. I assume 'us folks to take a wee step back,' as you put it, is a way of saying you don't want hurling to be an additional distraction, alongside soccer.
I'm still not really sure why the thought of people having a go at hurling lights a fire in you, as you say.
However, I understand that you are passionate about your club and your game, and I'm aware that there are challenges, obstacles, and distractions which you encounter.
And I wish you the best of luck in keeping the football going strong.

Hurling can and will grow, if given the chance and support, as we are currently seeing across Ireland (and beyond) at the moment.
It does not need to be, and should not be, to the detriment of anyone, any club, or any team. Least of all, the Wobbler's U14s.

I firmly believe growing hurling in Down would do the county a world of good. It never seemed to do Dublin much harm in the 2010s, anyway.
I believe even more that everyone should have a chance to try this great game of ours.

[Splash]

I understand that that is a fair bit longer than your average post, and it probably won't be read.

But I hope that it can answer the Wobbler's question as to why hurling people are into hurling. 

100%. He lost me after a couple of lines!!

Need to be more concise Mr Splash!

😎

Absolutely.

It was a very specific post; I would be more concise and avoid such a post in a typical discussion.

 

[Splash]

A massive test tomorrow, when Down welcome Wexford to Ballycran.

I would say the team named is about just as strong a team as Down could possibly put out.

Wexford were the last team outside Kilkenny to win the Leinster Championship, and it is great to see a team of that calibre coming to An Dún.

Whilst it'll no doubt be a tough day, it's great to see Down competing with the big teams again.

[johnnycool]

A massive test tomorrow, when Down welcome Wexford to Ballycran.

I would say the team named is about just as strong a team as Down could possibly put out.

Wexford were the last team outside Kilkenny to win the Leinster Championship, and it is great to see a team of that calibre coming to An Dún.

Whilst it'll no doubt be a tough day, it's great to see Down competing with the big teams again.

Three of that named team played the whole U20 game in Wicklow yesterday, those lads shouldn't be starting and if Finn Turpin is fit, he'd be on the first 15 every day of the week.


Wexford rode their luck against Antrim and will probably line out a stronger team today so I'd expect Down to struggle today.

Hoping for a performance though.

[LosDodgers]

Good game in Limerick yesterday, conditions where decent but pitch seemed to be very muddy and quite poor.

Slow enough opening 15 or so from Doen but then had a great 10 mins patch where we went 8-2 up, Daniel Guinness instrumental in this period, Barry had a goal fairly harshly ruled out for steps and McGeogh & Guinness also had goal chances, we really should have been out of sight at this stage.

2nd half was end to end and Limerick fought back well. We had a couple bad wides (Scullion & Havern with bad misses late on). Annet (who was impressive) also had a great goal chance well saved.

Close had a decent impact off the bench and helped up compete in midfield, McGeogh was also much more effective when moved out the field.

I think we do lack something, but this team has great spirit and fight and managed to get the win thanks to a great score from Annet, well worked move after close won the kick out.

Daniel Guinness MOTM for me with Annet & McPolin also impressing.

2/2 but will need to kick on from here

[Blue By Nature]

Quick question. How long can this Down hurling manager continue? Must be serious questions about him if he is the right person. If he spent more time coaching and winning close games instead of being on X ( Twitter ) rambling on about the Middle East and the Scottish Premiership they might win these games !!! Asking for a friend 

[knowbetter]

Quick question. How long can this Down hurling manager continue? Must be serious questions about him if he is the right person. If he spent more time coaching and winning close games instead of being on X ( Twitter ) rambling on about the Middle East and the Scottish Premiership they might win these games !!! Asking for a friend 

Well Down won the division 2A league last year and got promoted to division 1B. For a smaller hurling county that's a great achievement. Also although we lost yesterday, to come within 2 points of Wexford is an achievement on its own. We still have lots of our starters still missing and the 3 of U20s playing a full game the day before.

Ramblings on twitter aside this is the highest we've been as a county in hurling for 20 plus years, so in terms of management its not too bad.

Sure look at Antrim, big name manager and a team thats doing no better than us yet they have 40 or so hurling clubs to pick from, just a thought.

[Splash]

A great performance from Down today.

Heartbroken for them in the end.

Really, really, could have won that.

Not the same Wexford side that will go up against Galway and Kilkenny this summer, I'm sure, but for Down to put up the fight they did, was amazing.

It's well worth remembering, not that long ago, Down couldn't get near Meath in a Christy Ring Final. Today they were level with Wexford at the 69th or 70th minute.

Thought it was noticeable the speed at which Wexford operated at. If Down can maintain their status Div 1, exposure to that type of playing will benefit them no end in the long run.

Can't remember Ballycran being packed like that in a long time. Thought it was a good atmosphere.

I am obviously biased, but I did think Down couldn't get a free at times. Thought there was a momentum shift towards the end of the second half when Down had a clear 65, which was changed to a Wexford free out (for reasons I'm still not sure of). The momentum was well with Down at that stage, and the break give Wexford a chance to regroup a little.

Nonetheless, it was a great performance, and a great day for it. Clare in Ennis next week is a different beast, but there's plenty to be hopeful for about the year ahead after today's performance.

I know many were expecting a bit of a hiding today- not least myself. Pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong. Well done to everyone involved today.

[marty34]

Quick question. How long can this Down hurling manager continue? Must be serious questions about him if he is the right person. If he spent more time coaching and winning close games instead of being on X ( Twitter ) rambling on about the Middle East and the Scottish Premiership they might win these games !!! Asking for a friend 

Well Down won the division 2A league last year and got promoted to division 1B. For a smaller hurling county that's a great achievement. Also although we lost yesterday, to come within 2 points of Wexford is an achievement on its own. We still have lots of our starters still missing and the 3 of U20s playing a full game the day before.

Ramblings on twitter aside this is the highest we've been as a county in hurling for 20 plus years, so in terms of management its not too bad.

Sure look at Antrim, big name manager and a team thats doing no better than us yet they have 40 or so hurling clubs to pick from, just a thought.

Ronan's a good Down man who has Down punching well above their weight I think. Probably not taking many 'expenses' either? Compare that to Davy Fitz next door in Antrim. Sheenan has been with Down a good few years now. Had the Rock up for a while to freshen things up  bit. Players seem to like him and, as I say, Down are higher position then they've been in a long time.

Not a great start yesterday but came back and were well in it at the end. They'll give Kildare and Antrim  run or it. Tough challenge but be great to
see them stay up.

I think Clare and Dublin will go up. Not convinced on Wexford..

[imtommygunn]

Quick question. How long can this Down hurling manager continue? Must be serious questions about him if he is the right person. If he spent more time coaching and winning close games instead of being on X ( Twitter ) rambling on about the Middle East and the Scottish Premiership they might win these games !!! Asking for a friend 

The fella is doing a great job whether you like his social media profile or not...

[johnnycool]

Quick question. How long can this Down hurling manager continue? Must be serious questions about him if he is the right person. If he spent more time coaching and winning close games instead of being on X ( Twitter ) rambling on about the Middle East and the Scottish Premiership they might win these games !!! Asking for a friend 

The fella is doing a great job whether you like his social media profile or not...

Trevor Fletcher is the man pulling the strings.

[LosDodgers]

Quick question. How long can this Down hurling manager continue? Must be serious questions about him if he is the right person. If he spent more time coaching and winning close games instead of being on X ( Twitter ) rambling on about the Middle East and the Scottish Premiership they might win these games !!! Asking for a friend 

Ridiculous comment, especially after his side came within a couple of mins of beating Wexford. I think most Down fans would have been going into yesterday's game with a bit of fear of a 20+ point defeat.

Sounds like you have issues with his politics or choice of football team rather than his hurling record.

Him and his coaching team seem to be doing a great job

[snoopdog]

Anyone know if we will see Kerr or any of the Johnsons this year for Down.
Also no sign of Eugene as yet?.