Down Club Hurling & Football

[Lecale2]

HUgh Gilmore lined out for the crans 3rds last year but I think it was a one off. Lorenzo & Danny started for Bredagh all year.

Bredagh will be playing "Div 1" next year. Along with the seconds teams from the Ards, Newry, Kilclief, Ballela and Liatroim. With a South Down team in the NHL and Nicky Rackard Cup I don't expect us to get many matches.

Paddy will be wanting county players protected, the clubs can't field without them and league games will probably be called off. We might be better concentrating on Antrim or Ulster.

[Maiden1]

Can't comment on Murdock, but Patterson was certainly better than the other two and far better than Collins who was IMO a fairly average keeper.

Fairly average keepers dont win two All Irelands.

Ah, that old chestnut.  Footballing ability is directly proportional to the number of All-Ireland medals you win. Thanks for your contribution.

Who is the better keeper in your mind, Collins or Mickey McVeigh? No hurry with your answer.

I personally think Collins was a much better keeper.  He had far better reflexes than McVeigh and it is no coincidence Down won their 2 All Irelands when he was in nets between 1991 and 1995.  Micky McVeigh was a big man but a lot of his saves where because a player would blast the ball and it would strike off him, but he had trouble getting down if a player kept a shot low.  He had a monster kick out long before tees came into use though.

[thewobbler]

and it is no coincidence Down won their 2 All Irelands when he was in nets between 1991 and 1995

Aye, that's a fair point. Nothing to with Deegan, Breen, Higgins, G McCartan, J McCartan, Carr, Blaney and Linden being at, or near, their prime.

[spiritof91and94]

and it is no coincidence Down won their 2 All Irelands when he was in nets between 1991 and 1995

Aye, that's a fair point. Nothing to with Deegan, Breen, Higgins, G McCartan, J McCartan, Carr, Blaney and Linden being at, or near, their prime.

Why is everyone so hard on Collins? When did he ever let the team down? Answers by return.
Did he not save a penalty in an All Ireland final that today would mean automatic All Star recognition but the southern hacks had to sort o'dreary out because he was a Dub!

A ironic story to All Stars and 1994 was Eamonn Burns was the only Down Player not selected as a nominee - on the morning they were published a dublin hack rang Burns at home and asked him what he thought of the situation, Burns replied ask John O'Leary what he would swap this morning a All Star nominee or All Ireland Medal and hung up - Burns tells this story to this day -  at 1am and after his 10th pint of guinness!!!!!!!!

[Blue Island]

Aye, that's a fair point. Nothing to with Deegan, Breen, Higgins, G McCartan, J McCartan, Carr, Blaney and Linden being at, or near, their prime.
[/quote]

Lot of people being very hard on Collins. His  record speak for itself.

With regards to McVeigh being a better goal keeper many are over looking other facets of the game. McVeigh was and is without doubt a suberb goal keeper, but ask any Down defender over the last ten years and they will tell you he did not help their cause by constant slagging and vitriol. Granted, a keeper should be bollicking his defenders, particularly if you are a Down defender in the last ten years, but his comments were rarely helpful.

On the other hand, the Down teams of 91 and 94 appear to have nothing but respect for Collins and I would bow to their superior knowledge. I cannot recall even one mistake Collins made in his time between the posts. Perhaps someone else can. My memory is one of absolute soild assurance.

[the milkman]

Anybody know how the Down v Armagh went on tuesday nite?

[Guillem2]

Sean Mc Guinness will be up against men he managed in the 90's still plying their trade in the Ards 2nd teams.The language will be colourful
but a good apoointment all the same.

Not really barring Gazza if Ballycran regrade him and possibly Paul Coulter. McGuinness is more likely to see these men in the form of Danny Hogg and Lorenzo McMullan in his own changing room. All those other guys have retired.

He's more likely to be standing on the same sideline as some of them.

No doubt it's a good appointment especially if he brings his son Colm with him. I played under him and while we had our differences I have to say he's the best I ever worked with. Even though I didn't know it at the time.

McGuinness is no fool and will quickly establish who can hurl. He'll take no shit from committees and will line the team out well. He'll not tolerate players turning up late or lack of discipline. Bredagh would need to have a big squad becaue there are players who will not take his approach and will walk away. If the rest stick with him they will play the best hurling of their lives!

I will watch developments with interest.

[Square Ball]

Colm is coming as well, think the intention is that he will take most of the training. It is a great coup for the club and shows how serious the club are. 

[DownFanatic]

Milkman, I was at the game. Wasnt keeping the score but Armagh won by a couple. Down were poor in the 1st half before Ross made some good changes at halftime. The 2nd half was much more even.
This was the 5th Challenge game I have seen and from what ive observed Down are definitely improving.
A few observations: 1. The Down selection were physically inferior to their Armagh counterparts in most departments.
2. Down's more established players stood out by a mile. 3. At times we played some really good counter attacking football but our attacking play from a static start was poor. 4. Ultimately (Referring to my 1st Observation - As a unit we are not physically strong enough yet.

Starting 15 from memory.
1. B.Connell (Drumgath) - Only conceded one goal, kickouts good but Alder is better.
2. C.McGovern (Burren) - Really impressive. Marks tightly and plays like a terrier.
3. M.Cole (Rostrevor) - Gets a bit of stick. Great going forward but defensively he is limited. Gets caught out of position too often.
4. L.Howard (Bryansford) - Brilliant. Gets right up attackers arses and is really good at carrying the ball out of defence.
5. J.Hurley (Dundrum) - More accustomed to a central position. Doesnt seem comfortable at wing back. Struggles to get involved in games. Good ball carrier.
6. D.O'Hanlon (Ballymartin) - Just doesnt seem to cut it at this level. Far too laxydasical.
7. B.Rooney (Mayobridge) - Good tackler. Fast paced. Should maybe get a bit more experience with the U-21's.
8. D.Rooney (Burren) - Got injured within 10 minutes of the start.
9. J.Lynch (Drumgath) - Getting more confident with every game. Can mix it with the big boys. Great heart.
10. C.Magee (Mayobridge) - Not good enough for Senior intercounty.
11. R.Sexton (Mayobridge) - Superb. Everything went through him. Strength, speed and skill in abundance.
12. K.McKernan (Burren) - Tries really hard. Needs a few more years yet to adjust to the required standard.
13. J.McAreavey (Tullylish) - One trick pony - left foot. Little pace which seriously hinders him.
14. B.Sweeney (St Michaels) - Nowhere near county standard.
15. D.Hughes (Saval) - Shooting was a bit wonky but won plenty of ball and looked hungry.

Subs:
R.Stranney (Loughinisland) - Came on for Rooney at midfield. Won a ton of ball clean. Distributes it well. Great find.
P.Turley (Downpatrick) - Looked eager. Comfortable in possession. Beer gut is his only hinderance otherwise he should be on the panel.
K.McGuigan (Shamrocks) - Deployed in the forwards. Shows well. Better suited to wingback maybe.
P.Fitzpatrick (Ballymartin) - Couldnt get in to it.
P. Downey (Drumgath) - See above.
M.Rafferty (Shamrocks) - Bilstering speed. Saw little ball though.

From what ive seen in the past month or so, this would be my Starting 15 for Down this year.
1. D.Alder
2. L.Howard
3. D.McCartan
4. C.McGovern
5. K.McGuigan
6. L.Doyle
7. D.Rafferty
8. D.Gordon
9. J.Lynch
10. R.Murtagh
11. A.Rodgers
12. R.Sexton
13. P.Comiskey
14. B.Coulter
15. D.Hughes

[Mourne Rover]

Many thanks to DownFanatic for the report, but your chosen first 15 is dodgy at the back. Dan McCartan has the heart but not the physique to play full back at county level. While he might do in the corner, we will have to find a No 3 elsewhere. On the evidence of last summer, Kevin McGuigan has pace but lacks basic defensive skills and is too light. A half-back line with McGuigan, Dee Rafferty and Liam Doyle would be far too small for championship football. Doyle must be given a run at centre half, but Rafferty, while talented, may struggle against a bigger and stronger opponent.

I have seen very little of McGovern, but Howard looked the part from his St Louis days and should get his chance in the league. Alder has size, ability and a decent kick-out, so he also deserves a number of games.

We don't have enough midfielders to write off Jackie Lynch, but he made little impact with his club in division three last year and he must have improved beyond recognition if he is to become anything more than a fringe figure. Ambrose, with a little more self-belief, is still our best best to partner Dan in the middle, but Peter Fitzpatrick, if he makes any decent progress with the u21s, could still be an option.

I would not worry too much about our forwards at this stage, as, apart from the lack of an obvious no 11, the talent is there. If James Colgan can prove that he wants to be a senior county footballer, there should be a place for him somewhere as well.

[whyarerefssobad]

heard john clarke is back any truth in it

[Leo]

Alder for goals definitely.

Cant see how Dan Mc Cartan gets selected at all. Foul a minute man!
Pleased to see Howard and C McGovern in contention but M Cole cant play No. 3 and he is our best corner. Finding a full back is priority.
Agree with Doyle at 6 but we need two big men at wing back. McGuigan is nowehere near county standard.
If Clarke is back I would play him full forward where he was a revelation for An Riocht last year and give Benny a freer role. Would also like to see James Cunningham given a try out.

HF: McComiskey, Murtagh, Sexton
FF: Coulter, Clarke, Hughes

[the milkman]

Alder for goals definitely.

Cant see how Dan Mc Cartan gets selected at all. Foul a minute man!
Pleased to see Howard and C McGovern in contention but M Cole cant play No. 3 and he is our best corner. Finding a full back is priority.
Agree with Doyle at 6 but we need two big men at wing back. McGuigan is nowehere near county standard.
If Clarke is back I would play him full forward where he was a revelation for An Riocht last year and give Benny a freer role. Would also like to see James Cunningham given a try out.

HF: McComiskey, Murtagh, Sexton
FF: Coulter, Clarke, Hughes

I think that HF. line might be a bit light.

1.Alder
2.Rafferty
3.Murphy
4.McGovern
5.Howard
6.Doyle
7.Murtagh
8.Lynch
9.Gordan
10.Rodgers
11.Carr
12.Sexton
13.Coulter
14.Downey
15.McComiskey

Id would prefere two bigger men at no.5&7 but just cant think of any good enough

I agree though that if John Clarke is back home id def. bring him in full forward, seen him play there a few times thsi year and was very impressed!

[western exile]

We all agree that we need to find someone for full back.  And that problem has been around for a number of seasons now.
And most posters are in favour of pulling Benny out of full forward.   So why not play our best player at full back?
Benny has a) great ball winning ability,  b) good distributional stills, and c) a great reader of the game. All skills required at fullback.
The way county football has gone in recent years, the role of the full back is less about tackling and more about ball winning. i.e. winning the ball before the full forward.   Monaghan were not afraid to try out something radical like that last season, successfully.

And I agree, Liam Doyle at centre back.

[whyarerefssobad]

agree we should try benny full back have to try something