Down Club Hurling & Football

[DownFanatic]

Not getting into it again but if with the numbers Burren have at present they would win division 4 and then 3 if they had a team put into the lower leagues. That's not sayin they are the best senior team but the most certainly have the biggest pick. And that's with carrying a senior squad of 21 on a Friday night and say 21 in division 4. I don't see why division 4 teams wouldn't want to rise the standards by playing them.
Good luck to Down tonight
Any team announcement

Say Burren II's were in ACFL Division 4. Would you envisage a scenario whereby a player could play for Burren seniors in the ACFL Division 1 on a Friday night and then line out for the II's the following Friday night in ACFL Division 4 and inter change between teams throughout the season?

To make it right, there would surely need to be two distinct panels. If that was the case, a panel of 21 for a whole season in ACFL 1 is entirely unrealistic. Over the course of a 22 game season you would be needing at least 28-30 players to cover injuries, starred games etc.

Realistically, a Burren II's team with panel eligibility rulings in place would more likely be a hybrid between their II's and III's. I've no doubt they would surely be competitive in Division 4 but any aspirations beyond that could be limited.

Back in the late 70's, early 80's, Down operated a five division ACFL structure with quite a number of reserve teams included. Even up to the early 90's, reserve teams were entering the Down JFC. I don't think any club in Division 4 has anything to fear with a reserve offering entering their playground. I just think the perceived strength of say the likes of a Burren II's team in the structure is overstated.

[Truth hurts]

Well Burren seem to have bigger numbers at all levels compared to most. The Belfast teams don't generally stand out in reserve football
Burren
Kilcoo
Mayobridge
Clonduff

Would all contest division 3

When was the last time Clonduff have won a reserve title of any description? The other 3 would have strong enough squads to compete in Division 3 and 4 but that's would be as far as they would get. I would like to see it happen for a year to see how it would pan out, If you play 1 minute of division 1 football then you are ruled out of division 4 football. It would be a mixture of seconds and thirds players.

[sdg]

Well Burren seem to have bigger numbers at all levels compared to most. The Belfast teams don't generally stand out in reserve football
Burren
Kilcoo
Mayobridge
Clonduff

Would all contest division 3

When was the last time Clonduff have won a reserve title of any description? The other 3 would have strong enough squads to compete in Division 3 and 4 but that's would be as far as they would get. I would like to see it happen for a year to see how it would pan out, If you play 1 minute of division 1 football then you are ruled out of division 4 football. It would be a mixture of seconds and thirds players.

They wouldn't count outside Div 4,

[Truth hurts]

I don't want to offend anyone but they would beat Tecoonaght, Bosco, Banbridge and the Fin.

[thewobbler]

It would take a few years to settle down, or maybe fold, or maybe be stopped.

I would think if Burren IIs went to D4, as a team they'd reap an immediate reward with plenty of lads in their mid-20s committing solely to that team, with the carrot of 20+ games a year proving very strong. And that would see them smash all around them in D4 and most of D3.

But after a couple of years, assuming they wouldn't be permitted into D2 or the IFC, that initial passion/desire would surely subside. It might start up every few years when there's a handful of fringe senior players decide to throw their weight into junior football. But it wouldn't be a constant.

——

Would it be a more pertinent question to ask why Burren are party to such a broad catchment area when it's not possible to convert their legions of youngsters into adult players? I means it's different for Duff and Bredagh, where the next club is 10 miles away. But if you've got lads from Forest Hills in Newry, which go to school in Newry, shop in Newry, go to chapel in Newry, etc, maybe they should be considered Shamrocks / Mitchels / Harps instead?

[upandwin]

Make far too much sense that Wobbler...The long and short of it is that Burren have a reputation of winning and producing good players so anyone that's even remotely on the cusp of Burren's surrounding areas all want to go and play there...Decades of Ballyholland, Warrenpoint, Saval and Newry people making the trek to Burren because they had a great uncle that played for Burren thirds in the 70s and that's the justification for people choosing Burren. truth of it is there is a snobbery about South Down that if you want your children to get the best coaching and chance to be a superstar you send them to Burren...certainly supports the 'build it and they will come' theory

[snoopdog]

My view is its a non runner adding 2nds and 3rds to div 3 or 4 and into junior championships. Unfair on smaller clubs who do massive work with a limited pick that the chance of winning something is even less likely by adding the big clubs reserves into the mix. All this talk of burren 2nds and 3rds but yet they can't dominate the senior championship. Possibly look at that 1st. And Im not having a go as I have no allegiance to any of the senior clubs in Down.

[lumpitin]

Down panel for tonight
Charlie smith ; Eoin Murdock , Niall mcparland , Gerard Collins; Pierce Laverty, Darren O'Hagan, Daniel Guinness; Caolan Mooney, Gerard McGovern ; Oran Murdock, Rory Burns; Pearse Mcpolin, Gerard McGovern, Gerard Collins; Pierce Laverty, Ronan McCarthy,Barry O'Hagan; Steven Fegan, Liam Middleton, Cory Quinn, Andrew Gilmore, Daniel McCarthy, Ross Carr, Tom close

[upandwin]

Strange one that Gerard McGovern is included given that he isn't committing this year...fair play to him

[bigarsedkeeper]

It would take a few years to settle down, or maybe fold, or maybe be stopped.

I would think if Burren IIs went to D4, as a team they'd reap an immediate reward with plenty of lads in their mid-20s committing solely to that team, with the carrot of 20+ games a year proving very strong. And that would see them smash all around them in D4 and most of D3.

But after a couple of years, assuming they wouldn't be permitted into D2 or the IFC, that initial passion/desire would surely subside. It might start up every few years when there's a handful of fringe senior players decide to throw their weight into junior football. But it wouldn't be a constant.

——

Would it be a more pertinent question to ask why Burren are party to such a broad catchment area when it's not possible to convert their legions of youngsters into adult players? I means it's different for Duff and Bredagh, where the next club is 10 miles away. But if you've got lads from Forest Hills in Newry, which go to school in Newry, shop in Newry, go to chapel in Newry, etc, maybe they should be considered Shamrocks / Mitchels / Harps instead?

How do you change that without killing off smaller clubs elsewhere? In Annaclone we would would have players who lived in Banbridge or Rathfriland but always played for us because their fathers took them early on. Some came later too before anyone makes that point. Even Kilcoo, not that they're a small club anymore, wouldn't have the housing to keep all their players there for the next generation so they would have underage players living in Newcastle and Castlewellan. Surely the Harps would have a bit of the same issue?

[Truth hurts]

I do not think that any Sigerson players are playing tonight.
I do think the county board needs to do something about the number of players in Burren and maybe offload them to junior clubs for a season or two. Mitchells need players so the Newry Burren players could go to them for a start. The Saval Burren players could go on loan to Saval for a year and see how they fare out. We could unearth more players for the county then as I am sure there are players missing out.

[thewobbler]

Make far too much sense that Wobbler...The long and short of it is that Burren have a reputation of winning and producing good players so anyone that's even remotely on the cusp of Burren's surrounding areas all want to go and play there...Decades of Ballyholland, Warrenpoint, Saval and Newry people making the trek to Burren because they had a great uncle that played for Burren thirds in the 70s and that's the justification for people choosing Burren. truth of it is there is a snobbery about South Down that if you want your children to get the best coaching and chance to be a superstar you send them to Burren...certainly supports the 'build it and they will come' theory

Why bring "South Down" into this? Seriously? Do a headcount on how many adult players have transferred into larger clubs over the past 50 years, and the only thing you'll learn is that the trends are not regional.

There is no war.

[Truth hurts]

Ach Wobbler there is a snobbery from the south Down super clubs at times

[thewobbler]

Can you define what you mean by snobbery?

Also it would be good if you could clarify if you mean Burren, or Burren and others.

[upandwin]

I mentioned South Down because that's where I'm from and all I know about in terms of players getting sent to the bigger clubs and using the schools as a way of justifying it...I'm sure it does happen all over the county, I just wouldn't have heard about where and why...but I know for a fact it's been happening for years in and around Burren...as do you