Down Club Hurling & Football

[Dubh driocht]

The anger on here is understandable- I felt exactly the same last night coming out of Pairc Esler.
Today, I want to channel that anger into something constructive. I can't think of too many positives from last night ; Fermanagh were more focussed from the get-go and could have raced away with the game. However, the management did read the situation in the second quarter and we had three goal chances- two were wasted by shooting at point-blank range while Davidson struck the outside of the post. Some of the tackling was excellent and we built on good turnovers to find ourselves a point up and in the ascendancy when a mistake from Barry O'Hagan killed the momentum and allowed Fermanagh to grab two points and go in one up.
The body language of the players traipsing off should have rung alarm bells; the third quarter was a disaster and management were back to last year's paralysis. Eamonn Burns is a proud man, a warrior from the 90s, but when he hooked a young lad making his league debut- McKeever ( by no means the worst) - he should have acknowledged the lad's efforts. Managers must be decisive, up-beat and motivated; at the moment, for whatever reason, ours isn't.
The bit of momentum from the Derry game has been lost and the trip to Ennis will define our season; lose and we are potentially looking at another year of defeats, win on the road and there are possibilities to build on. Somebody needs to work hard with these young men this week as there are some good players and they need confidence and reassurance; Gaelic football should be fun and a county team represents collective pride.
I think the MC debate is a red herring; he was our best player in the last 20 years and it's great to see him playing again but the challenge of his illness rules out county football IMO.
We all have our views on the County Board and the County Secretary. I will never criticise people who volunteer for the GAA as I've sat on enough committees to recognise the huge unseen efforts these people make. However, rather than moan and curse the dark we should applaud the efforts of people like Ross Carr to actually do something to stop the rot and plan for the future.

[Smurfy123]

Well said imagine.County champions this past 5 years and can't get 1 started on the team?Its hard to believe but we are worse than last year.We looked very unfit for a team that have been training 4 nights a week from November.It was a big risk not to play Mckernan Johnstone Devlin O Hanlon and Poland and it back fired big time.It was said on here before about what Murray has added since joining the set up?He was very quiet last night when things were going against us .Surely lads we are better than this ?

[Mourne Rover]

The contributors who have been suggesting that our county executive should be replaced are presumably aware that the posts are all filled at the annual convention and it is up to anyone who believes they can do a better job to put their names forward for election.

Everyone is entitled to a view on the performance of officials but it is those who decline to get involved in any way who are tolerating failure.

It is equally pointless to demand the recall of Martin Clarke when it has been well documented that, while he was an outstanding star in the past, he has a medical condition which effectively allows him to play at club but not county level.

What we really need to do is ask whether all the players who do have the fitness and ability required are actually representing Down and whether we are getting the best out of the existing members of a senior squad which still includes some capable individuals.

It would be wrong to base our conclusions on last night's game alone, but it is a fact that our manager has now been in charge for ten league and championship fixtures and lost them all.

While the depth of talent available to him is limited, and cannot be compared to our successful teams of the past, it is very difficult to detect where progress has been made over the last year.

It is possible that signs of improvement will finally start to emerge next week against Clare, who were in division three last season, but another defeat would leave us heading firmly towards back to back relegations.

In those circumstances, it would be reasonable to expect that our executive, who were given a democratic mandate to take decisions, will tell us whether or not they have confidence in our management structures.

[wobbller]

The contributors who have been suggesting that our county executive should be replaced are presumably aware that the posts are all filled at the annual convention and it is up to anyone who believes they can do a better job to put their names forward for election.

Everyone is entitled to a view on the performance of officials but it is those who decline to get involved in any way who are tolerating failure.

It is equally pointless to demand the recall of Martin Clarke when it has been well documented that, while he was an outstanding star in the past, he has a medical condition which effectively allows him to play at club but not county level.

What we really need to do is ask whether all the players who do have the fitness and ability required are actually representing Down and whether we are getting the best out of the existing members of a senior squad which still includes some capable individuals.

It would be wrong to base our conclusions on last night's game alone, but it is a fact that our manager has now been in charge for ten league and championship fixtures and lost them all.

While the depth of talent available to him is limited, and cannot be compared to our successful teams of the past, it is very difficult to detect where progress has been made over the last year.

It is possible that signs of improvement will finally start to emerge next week against Clare, who were in division three last season, but another defeat would leave us heading firmly towards back to back relegations.

In those circumstances, it would be reasonable to expect that our executive, who were given a democratic mandate to take decisions, will tell us whether or not they have confidence in our management structures.

I suppose the problem with the County Executive is that it is made up of the same old faces each year but maybe in different roles as they do their stint and move to another after five years.Same faces,same way of doing things and as we get worse on the pitch they are incapable of stopping the rot by being inventive.Eamon is and was never the right man for the job and his new man Cathal Murray appears to have brought nothing to the table.Fitness appeared a problem on Saturday night and Clare had a good draw away to Derry so this weekend will be a challenge.

[Lecale Gael]

Anyone who thought we were going to beat Fermanagh needs a reality check.....lets call a spade a spade....with our current panel we will struggle to remain in division 2.

ok if we had scored those two goals it may have helped but the reality of it is Fermanagh hit 13 wides half of which they should have scored.

their players roasted us in the second half. Lee Cullen left our lads for dead in one burst forward. his brother che dominated the full back line.

our tackling was poor. one instance saw 3 down players shepherding the Fermanagh full back well only for him to be shoved to the ground for a easy free out. that's just plain thick. tackling generally was poor. one hand on the player with the other grappling for the ball which ended up in cheaps frees be given up. this is in part poor technique and poor fitness in keeping up with the opponent to make the proper tackle

Fermanagh pushed up on our kickouts to force the long punt which they dominated. we couldn't do same as we needed the extra man in midfield incase they went long so let them find their full backs and tried to defend from there

some said we didn't start our strongest team....but the first half was better than an abject second half so that blows that argument.

all we can do is get the basics right at club level and through the new mourne academy set up cos there is no quick fix.

the best players are not available for selection for one reason or another...

[Smurfy123]

Lecale where do our problems lie within the country?
Surely we are not as bad as we have shown this past 15 months ?
Yes we have not got our best players but we still should be better than that?

[SamFever]

 The Ralph McTell / The Furey Brothers song comes to mind for the match at the weekend.

[DownFanatic]

Our way out of this current slumber with our minor, U-21 and senior teams is principally through the Mourne Academy. It is the main vehicle through which we can get back on our feet. It is no quick fix and is totally dependent on the quality of coaches within it and how the whole thing is structured.
We also need to look at the situation in regards to football in our schools.
The more teams playing 'A' level grade the better. Unfortunately we only have the Abbey and St Colman's playing in the MacRory. We need the Red High up there again. It's near 20 years since they played at that level. Can the likes of Knock now with their Bredagh and Carryduff contingent make that breakthrough? St Malachy's have serious tradition and I'm sure they won't be far off the 'A' grade in the next few years.
Finally there is a huge onus on our clubs. A lot of our coaching seminars/education workshops are poorly attended in the county. I feel that a lot of clubs don't invest enough time in coaching their coaches and exposing them to Ulster Council courses in order to up skill them.
When we see a rise in credibility of the development squads, more schools competing at the top grade and better coaching structures set out within our clubs then the journey back to the top table will begin.

[johnneycool]

Our way out of this current slumber with our minor, U-21 and senior teams is principally through the Mourne Academy. It is the main vehicle through which we can get back on our feet. It is no quick fix and is totally dependent on the quality of coaches within it and how the whole thing is structured.
We also need to look at the situation in regards to football in our schools.
The more teams playing 'A' level grade the better. Unfortunately we only have the Abbey and St Colman's playing in the MacRory. We need the Red High up there again. It's near 20 years since they played at that level. Can the likes of Knock now with their Bredagh and Carryduff contingent make that breakthrough? St Malachy's have serious tradition and I'm sure they won't be far off the 'A' grade in the next few years.
Finally there is a huge onus on our clubs. A lot of our coaching seminars/education workshops are poorly attended in the county. I feel that a lot of clubs don't invest enough time in coaching their coaches and exposing them to Ulster Council courses in order to up skill them.
When we see a rise in credibility of the development squads, more schools competing at the top grade and better coaching structures set out within our clubs then the journey back to the top table will begin.

A bit of sense in there, but I think you're missing a whole area of concern i.e. the primary schools.
We're sending coaches into Primary schools and that's great, possibly once a week at best, which in itself is enough, but there's little or no end product, i.e. games, blitzes for them and AFAIK speaking from the hurling side we're into February and the local primary school has played in one P6 blitz. I think last year between P4's and P7's they played in three blitzes the whole term time and one INTO blitz pre Feile.
Get that sorted, coupled with making the club connection at underage and increase the participation at this level and more will stay involved in the game(s). In my time involved with our juvenile sets ups if you don't get a child involved at at least P3 or P4 then they're less likely to come onboard later on as they're playing catch up and that's never good for their self esteem no matter how you try and dress it up.

Oh, hurling has finally been kickstarted in the Red High again as well as St Pats, Knock, so keep the big ball out of them please 

On coaching, the very best coaching sessions I've been at were with Paudie Butler and Eamon O'Shea and there wasn't a power point display or flip chart or even a cone to be seen.

[Smurfy123]

This sums things up


There's a reason why The Wire is one of the most quotable TV series of all time.

There's a line for everything, even the pitiful demise of Down's inter-county footballers. After seeing some of what happened and speaking to people who were in Newry on Saturday night, the conversation between Bunk, a detective, and Omar, the notorious stick-up man, came to mind. Bunk lambastes Omar for his latest violent tirade. He reminds him of how they went to the same school when their neighbourhood had a community. He lashes out (we'll remove the expletive): "Makes me sick how far we done fell." Does it make anybody sick in Down just how much they have descended these last 22 months? It doesn't seem so. In that time, they have lost 13 straight matches. Their last victory came in April 2015. Eamon Burns has yet to experience either a victory or even a draw in that time.

Two years ago, Jim McCorry earned promotion to Division 1 but the board executive's reaction to an early qualifier defeat left him feeling unwanted. His 45% win rate puts Burns' record to shame but there was no rush by Down to hang out one of their own after a sharp championship exit last year. Pride comes before the fall but Down remain arrogant as they descend further into obscurity.

[Aristo 60]

Smurfy,

When I look at your comments, you know what I see? A man without a county. Not hard enough for this right here, and maybe, just maybe, not smart enough for them out there.

Aristo

[West Down Rover]

Was at the match and was fairly content with the first half. However the lack of player and management experience at this level soon showed.  Pete McGrath with Quigley, Corrigan and other Fermanagh player's experience prevailed. 
Poor calls by the Down forwards blasting the ball into backs/goalie (like a u14 glorying!) rather than fisting over the bar or looking for passing options plus a lack of self belief in taking a shot for a point from the side line, instead they recycled the ball back the other way.  Down goalie kick outs and poor mid field play were also our downfall.
Certain now that the Down Senior football team and Management is a 'holding position' until new talent or some of the older experience lads return.  The Down players have indeed talent, but need self belief and I am afraid more experience, which means further losses until the ship is turned around.
I can see a good future having attended development squad matches in 2016 at u14 and u15 level.  Also we must recognise the strong Minor club teams in Down.  The future, perhaps 3-5 years is Red/Black and positive.

[befair]

Understandable that our goalie had problems with the kick-outs. Under the floodlights, the colours probably looked quite similar. Red and black, green and white, it's no wonder he continually licked the ball to the Fermanagh team

[rosskarr]

  Dreary stuff on and off the pitch.

[wobbller]

Was at the match and was fairly content with the first half. However the lack of player and management experience at this level soon showed.  Pete McGrath with Quigley, Corrigan and other Fermanagh player's experience prevailed. 
Poor calls by the Down forwards blasting the ball into backs/goalie (like a u14 glorying!) rather than fisting over the bar or looking for passing options plus a lack of self belief in taking a shot for a point from the side line, instead they recycled the ball back the other way.  Down goalie kick outs and poor mid field play were also our downfall.
Certain now that the Down Senior football team and Management is a 'holding position' until new talent or some of the older experience lads return.  The Down players have indeed talent, but need self belief and I am afraid more experience, which means further losses until the ship is turned around.
I can see a good future having attended development squad matches in 2016 at u14 and u15 level.  Also we must recognise the strong Minor club teams in Down.  The future, perhaps 3-5 years is Red/Black and positive.

A good first post and welcome to the Board.While recognising your positivity about U14 and U15,I don't understand your reference to strong Minor teams when these teams don't get to shine until the later knock-out stages of the MFC in August and September by which time we'll probably be out of competition in the Ulster/All-Ireland stages at County level.