Down Club Hurling & Football

[whitegoodman]

Pete achieved success with the minors though......

There appears to be plenty money available to pay the likes of Tally, AOR and Moyna over the years.  Maybe someone outside the county with no "supposed" family or club bias is the way forward.

[5 Sams]

James confirmed today that he has stepped down.

Personally I thought he done an excellent job with what he had at his disposal. Getting us within a kick of the ball of an All Ireland title in 2010 was a huge achievement.

A great servant to Down over the past quarter of a century or so.

+1 Owes us nothing. Good luck James. he'll be snapped up somewhere else and will have great success.

[T O Hare]

James tenure gave us some great days out and he should be applauded for where he took Down football too especially the unforgettable journey in 2010.

[Mourne Rover]

We have always paid the going rate for our back-up staff but the manager's post has usually been regarded as a vocation rather than a job which offered an attractive package. While it is always possible that we could look seriously at external candidates, it would require a change of approach by the county board and probably the involvement of a major sponsor.

[Dubh driocht]

Thanks for all your commitment and inspiration James.
He was always a leader who was his own man; sometimes this was a problem but most times it was a strength. I'm not sure if he will want to get in to management again any time soon. As for his successor; clear that beyond Mc Corry and Dawson there are no obvious candidates. I'm assuming that previous managers will not be considered and there are a couple of Tyrone natives who could be considered; Mickey Donnelly did ok with the 'Bridge and Jody Gormley has inter-county experience, has done well with the Abbey but not so well with the Stone We have gone to the 91/94 well a couple of times and there's not much left. Conor Deegan has been mentioned but I'm not sure; he seems to be getting on OK with Dublin teams but I think he is a bit of a spoofer- listened to him on RTE radio last week and he talked plenty but actually said nothing of consequence. However, he could bring in good coaches/mentors but not sure if he would do if solely for expenses. I think people like Banty/Tally/J Mc Nulty/ D Cassidy/E Mc Eneaney will be mentioned but don't really see any of them as serious contenders. As our under-age teams have underachieved dramatically in recent years there is not a huge supply of incoming talent but we still have enough decent players to compete and, as noted, there shouldn't be huge expectations on the new man.If Clarke and Mooney return, and some of the players who left the panel (when it was clear that they were behind Eoin in the pecking order) come back, we could maintain div 2 and push for an Ulster. However, it will be interesting to see what happens to the more senior players; Benny was a James fan and, despite pledging another year last week, he might call it quits; Brendy Mc Veigh may also go but I would hope that Big Dan stays; we need him badly. Ambrose is still young enough and we know his potential but he needs an extended period of injury free football to regain his form of 2010.
One player who I hope to see central to our plans is Aidan Carr; it was a hard one for him to re-commit after Ross left but he did it and Daniel is faced with a similar challenge but I hope he stays on.
Anyway, back to where I started, and serious appreciation to James for giving us some great days out. My personal favourite was the destruction of Sligo in 2010 in Cavan; the performance that announced us as a serious team and built the platform for the Kerry and Kildare games which weren't too bad either. The comeback against Monaghan and the win in Celtic Park also deserve mentions along with league wins over Dublin and Donegal. While it was devastating to lose the final in 2010, it was probably the best performance of his reign, so you can walk away with head high James and reflect on a good job, well done.

[Pangurban]

James can leave with his Head held high. His successor will require experience in depth, an encyclopaedic knowledge of Down football, and a proven track record. In Down there is really only one candidate, a Man whom we treated shamsfully in the past, Pete Mc Grath. In terms of a CV any other candidate would be inferior.

[thewobbler]

I have to say, well done Wee James. Not just for the stint given, during which Down football took genuine steps forward, but for having the good sense to move along at the right time.

Some of the things I liked best about McCartan. He changed the mentality of Down footballers towards the back door, right from the off.  He got a Down team to within 2 points of the AI champions last year, by having the balls and persuasion to systematically change how Down play football. He showed tremendous loyalty to players who proved that the red and black genuinely meant as much to them as it it did to him; and as a direct result the awful beatings to which we had become numb to throughout the noughties, largely became a thing of the past (save for a couple of exceptions). He took us to Croke Park in 2010 and while we fell just short, we took it on with gusto and distinction.

All told, he achieved expectations and then some. There may have some bizarre tendencies in his selection policies, but consider this: in the 5 years since he was appointed, our clubs have rarely given him cause to shake up his original thinking, by producing the players to do so. The players being kept out by Eoin, Liam, Ambrose and co are definitely not the class of 94.

It'll be a tough act to follow. Hopefully whoever comes in will have a long hard look at the Donegal game last year, and realise that Down can and will be coached to win at all costs. Our fans will complain either way, so don't worry about them.

Thanks James.

[Brick Tamlin]

May be cynical but I f**kin hate the widespread eulogising whenever a player/manager retires or steps down from a team.
FFS he stood down he didn't die.
Wee James did a very decent job in his tenure i agree but i think he also could have done better in some areas.

There are very few men capable of taking on the managers role within the county. Dawson and McCorry are the height of it. Poacher is a coach not a manager and to put it blunty he hasn't the temperament nor maturity for intercounty management. Laughable he is being mentioned. Pete McGrath is another i wouldn't have near it. Had his day and it should be left at that. Mulholland is another i find confusing. Can anyone explain the merits for installing him as intercounty management material? And don't mention QUB, that's a jobs-for-the-boys gig.

If county board can afford to shell out for Tally & McIvor, then Aidan O'Rourke and then Niall Moyna well then they should be taking that money and giving it to the 2 standout candidates who know Down football inside out and that is undoubtedly McCorry and Dawson. If they go outside the county then its anyone's guess who they would look at.
I think the heroes of 91-94 well has dried up or has already been tried and tested. An argument could be made for an outside appointment with no ties or bias.

Iv mentioned it previously and id repeat again that i think our development of young footballers throughout the county needs looked at again from schools to development squads. Definitely think there is room for improvement there in terms of the facilitation of our young players, the coaching of them, the coaching and management personnel and also the overall development and progression of youngsters fit to produce for senior intercounty. Watching some club action recently from Div1 and to be fair not a lot of our county men are standing out for their clubs, whether that's down to the better standard of your average club footballer i don't know, but id be expecting intercounty players to make a big impact regularly for his club on a Friday night. Danny Hughes, Ronan Murtagh, Benny Coulter, Ronan Sexton would have all stood out a mile regularly for their clubs and were easy identified as county men when in club action.

[Mourne Rover]

Brick, we are not in a position to dismiss anyone's credentials at this stage, but, when you list Dawson as a stand-out candidate, are you taking into account his time in the Antrim job ? While McCorry has a good club record, do you think that an Armagh man really wants to switch to the Down post at this stage in his career ? We are going to face some tough choices, and there is much to be said for looking at younger options who are ready to take on a rebuilding programme.

[Aristo 60]

Thanks James for all the very good effort and so nearly bringing us to the promised land. We won't forget 2010 for a long while. For me the buzz of feeling our ship turn round was newbridge in feb 10 so I suppose it was karma that kildare also played a part in the final act.

Overall, ala Irish news, I'd give James a 7.5 / 10 during his tenure. Points deducted for the heavy defeats shipped in croke park and the eoin/Johnstons carry on.

If you write a book on it all James ill buy it.

Onwards we go but. First year in for a new manager tends to be best - so - ahem -  I hope brick wouldn't mind if I ask again for our exiles to take note.


Thanks again James and family.

[Gabriel]

Thanks James for all the very good effort and so nearly bringing us to the promised land. We won't forget 2010 for a long while. For me the buzz of feeling our ship turn round was newbridge in feb 10 so I suppose it was karma that kildare also played a part in the final act.

What a year that was. Easy to forget how good we were in the league as well, unbeaten until we were caught on the hop by Armagh in the final. Looking back on 2010, the most frustrating aspect is that we never managed to push on from there. Amazing to think that that was the last championship Ronan Murtagh ever played for Down. Peter Fitzpatrick and Paul McComiskey have only played in one championship each since then, both in 2011, playing peripheral roles. James Colgan hasn't featured for Down since then, John Clarke retired after the first game of the following championship, Damien Rafferty barely featured again, and 2011 was Martin Clarke's last year. I know there have been various factors behind each of these, injuries, emigration, disillusionment and the like, but it's amazing how quickly that team came apart.

[whitegoodman]

Any chance of a cheeky move for Tony McEntee?  I would have thought that Geezer has the Armagh job for the next number of years so this would be an opportunity for him to get into inter county management.

This is the kind of outside the box thinking we need to be looking at instead of looking at the past with Pete or with club managers who with all due respect have not had the success to warrant being mentioned for the job.

[urbangael]

We'll done James but maybe time for a change and get things freshened up.  Time for an outsider. Perhaps Peter Canavan could be tempted.

[thebar]

May be cynical but I f**kin hate the widespread eulogising whenever a player/manager retires or steps down from a team.
FFS he stood down he didn't die.
Wee James did a very decent job in his tenure i agree but i think he also could have done better in some areas.

There are very few men capable of taking on the managers role within the county. Dawson and McCorry are the height of it. Poacher is a coach not a manager and to put it blunty he hasn't the temperament nor maturity for intercounty management. Laughable he is being mentioned. Pete McGrath is another i wouldn't have near it. Had his day and it should be left at that. Mulholland is another i find confusing. Can anyone explain the merits for installing him as intercounty management material? And don't mention QUB, that's a jobs-for-the-boys gig.

Brick I couldnt have put it better myself....

If county board can afford to shell out for Tally & McIvor, then Aidan O'Rourke and then Niall Moyna well then they should be taking that money and giving it to the 2 standout candidates who know Down football inside out and that is undoubtedly McCorry and Dawson. If they go outside the county then its anyone's guess who they would look at.
I think the heroes of 91-94 well has dried up or has already been tried and tested. An argument could be made for an outside appointment with no ties or bias.

Iv mentioned it previously and id repeat again that i think our development of young footballers throughout the county needs looked at again from schools to development squads. Definitely think there is room for improvement there in terms of the facilitation of our young players, the coaching of them, the coaching and management personnel and also the overall development and progression of youngsters fit to produce for senior intercounty. Watching some club action recently from Div1 and to be fair not a lot of our county men are standing out for their clubs, whether that's down to the better standard of your average club footballer i don't know, but id be expecting intercounty players to make a big impact regularly for his club on a Friday night. Danny Hughes, Ronan Murtagh, Benny Coulter, Ronan Sexton would have all stood out a mile regularly for their clubs and were easy identified as county men when in club action.

[Line Ball]

Some post here taken from another thread on a similar topic

So who are the front runners for the job? Anyone obvious?
James McCartan seems very popular considering he won nothing and his results were mixed to say the least. Down have been on the slide for a long time

McCorry and Dawson will be touted along with Tony McEntee but they will all cost and it is widely known that Down aren't in great nick financially.

Former minor manager Mark Turley would be an interesting choice with Mickey Linden possibly in the equation too.

What are you on about, obviously trying get John Morgan a gig back with Down?  Next thing you will be saying that Desy Kennedy and Martin Mc Garry should be selectors, top class stuff that would strike fear in any county.  As for Mickey, a great lad but just not cut out for it.

Dawson will not budge from Bryansford and his time with Antrim wasn't great so he will probably give it a while before he gives County football another go.
Mc Corry would be the best candidate but only if it is on his terms but I'm not sure if Down can give him what he wants.

Money
I'm not sure about James but previous managers received considerable, and I mean considerable expenses.  Recently the major expenses for the county 'back room' staff have been born by several well placed, supportive business men.  This should come as no surprise but everybody knows that we dont have 2d to rub together.

Future
We do not have the players at present.  The infrastructure is not there with development squads run on a joke and a prayer.  The trawl of the county, with meetings upon meetings to find another way forward rather than the 'Down Way' has proved to be ineffective.  We continually uses the goodwill of clubs for training while paying the Abbey a premium to use their facilities for the senior team.  We lack foresight, men with a plan, we lack ambition, we are going no where. 

Thanks James but I don't know where we go from here.