Down Club Hurling & Football

[outinfront]

The rule as it stands isn't great any way.  A 5 minute substitution appearance in senior championship means you can't play reserve the next year.  Not fair really IMO.

[passedit]

The rule as it stands isn't great any way.  A 5 minute substitution appearance in senior championship means you can't play reserve the next year.  Not fair really IMO.

That one's easy fixed, as we now have group games change it from one appearance for the senior team to two in the previous season.

Either that or police the excluded player list properly. (Excluded player must have played championship for the grade above in the previous year maybe)

[thewobbler]

Speaking as a career reserve footballer, any player who gets the chance to play Senior Championship really shouldn't be bothered if it rules them of a Reserve Championship for a year.

If they're good enough for a senior panel, they should be aiming for senior team and not keeping one eye on the lower level.

[supersub]

True but think the initial point was about it being detrimental for the club as a whole rather than individuals as there are less/not enough players available for selection in the reserve championship the following year.

[ardtole]

A lot of lads who pay their membership at the start of the year expect to have their game every week and would rather play a full game for the reserves than do sub for the seniors. I would have sympathy for a reserve team player who was called up for the senior team due to injury, suspension etc dropped then for the next game when first choice returns and cannot play reserve championship the following year.

[outinfront]

That's sort of what I meant.  Senior championship should be the aim, but a short appearance really shouldn't rule you out of reserves the next year.  With the group games a lot of squad members probably got run outs this year and yes that will be detrimental to the reserve championship team next year under the current rules.  The reserve championship is always a good competition!

[Town Gael]

Obviously everyone should aspire to play senior championship football but not everyone can.  The PRFC means a lot to players whose level that is and to see it diminished by the senior group format this year is, I believe, not on. It would have a detrimental impact on younger players and clubs if it were to be abolished due to teams being unable to field. Some good ideas already mentioned like playing two league games before being tied could be an option or allowing 3 players who would have been tied to play but not allowing any top 13 play might also help

[thewobbler]

I think the last couple of posters are missing the point that nobody forces anyone to tog out for Senior Championship. If you're putting on a tracksuit it's not so you can spend 60 minutes in the stand.

If you are then put out on the field, that makes you a senior footballer. Reserves shouldn't be for senior footballers.

[Town Gael]

I don't think you get what I mean thewobbler. I played both senior (as a sub) and reserve championship football but I was by no means a senior footballer. Next year Liatroim reserve players won't get any championship football as they won't make the senior team and as in their last group game this year the seniors played their seconds team they won't have enough men to field. I'm sure they won't be the only ones. You have to cater for all players and not just the best in the club.

I would have been gutted as a reserve player to have missed out on a years championship because my club couldn't field due to a flawed senior championship system the previous year.

[ardtole]

I dont think.anyone is disputing that anyone would not want to play sfc. But because of the new structures in place clubs are likely to have to use more players due to the extra games, resulting in extra injuries, suspensions etc. Now when the reserve player gets the call up to the senior squad ive no doubt he will be delighted, proud etc. He might get the last ten mins, his club might not make it out of the group stage and he loses a year of championship football the following year at his "proper" level.

Its a bit of a connundrum and it will be next year before its effects will be noticed. Unfortunatrly it wont affect our club at this moment in time, tough enough to get one team on the pitch.

[DaddyLongLegs]

Anyone else been following the JFC issue on Hogan Stand re Dromara/Drumaness/County Board? Not going to go into the details (see Hogan Stand for background) but Dromara appealed a County Board decision to the Ulster Council who ruled in favour of Dromara so Dromara obviously had merit in their position. Wonder is there any impact of this issue on other Down competitions including league positionings - only appears to be a problem when a team fails to field.

[thewobbler]

I don't think you get what I mean thewobbler. I played both senior (as a sub) and reserve championship football but I was by no means a senior footballer. Next year Liatroim reserve players won't get any championship football as they won't make the senior team and as in their last group game this year the seniors played their seconds team they won't have enough men to field. I'm sure they won't be the only ones. You have to cater for all players and not just the best in the club.

I would have been gutted as a reserve player to have missed out on a years championship because my club couldn't field due to a flawed senior championship system the previous year.

This really though is an issue for Liatroim, and not for the County Board. The Reserve Championship eligibility rule is probably the clearest and cleanest one in the whole of the GAA rulebook. It's also the easiest one for anyone to investigate, as official teamsheets are submitted for every Senior Championship fixture.

When they made the decision to field a reserve team in Senior Championship, Liatroim made it clear that they've little interest in pursuing reserve honours, this year or next. By virtue of lining out, those reserve players willingly accepted this approach. As I say, that's one for the club to chew on, not the administrators. Liatroim made the decision not to cater for all players.

[Down Follower]

This really though is an issue for Liatroim, and not for the County Board. The Reserve Championship eligibility rule is probably the clearest and cleanest one in the whole of the GAA rulebook. It's also the easiest one for anyone to investigate, as official teamsheets are submitted for every Senior Championship fixture.

When they made the decision to field a reserve team in Senior Championship, Liatroim made it clear that they've little interest in pursuing reserve honours, this year or next. By virtue of lining out, those reserve players willingly accepted this approach. As I say, that's one for the club to chew on, not the administrators. Liatroim made the decision not to cater for all players.
[/quote]

Fully agree with that.  It was Liatroms choice to play those men.

[downup]

I understand Liatroim's plight as it is the same conundrum a lot of clubs were faced with given this new championship format. I believe that the rule should be relaxed for players who play in the round robin series (excluding the top 13) as it gives young players and others championship experience without sacrificing them in reserve championship. The rules changed for championship in terms of format so there is no reason why they cant be altered for this. The county board use the round robin series to give young up and coming referees experience so why cant we give players the same opportunity without penalising them.

[qubdub]

Anyone else been following the JFC issue on Hogan Stand re Dromara/Drumaness/County Board? Not going to go into the details (see Hogan Stand for background) but Dromara appealed a County Board decision to the Ulster Council who ruled in favour of Dromara so Dromara obviously had merit in their position. Wonder is there any impact of this issue on other Down competitions including league positionings - only appears to be a problem when a team fails to field.

Had a quick read through it. Complicated enough position.

Dromara from what I can gather have done nothing wrong and were entitled to be in the semi final, only for the County Board to implement a play-off with Drumaness, subsequently called-off after the Ulster Council appeal.

There are suggestions on HS that Drumaness showed up for a game with Bright in the knowledge that Bright wouldn't be fielding due to a wedding. This resulted in a default victory which put them level on points with Dromara but with an inferior scoring difference.

The argument is, that Bright were willing to play the game on an alternative date, something which Drumaness refused, as was their right, and chose to take the default victory. Such a walkover however doesn't take into account scoring difference (the '5-0' score is meaningless and serves only for the online computer servasport score system). Some people are arguing that Drumaness should have played Bright and beat them by the required scoreline necessary rather than take the walk over which has led to this situation.