Down Club Hurling & Football

Started by Lecale2, November 10, 2006, 12:06:55 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Mourne Rover

Line Ball, we may have to agree to differ over the Carr penalties. In Omagh, his shot pretty clearly went to his right and the keeper's left. In Newry, by accident or design, it went straight down the middle. If he had repeated his approach from the first day, he would almost certainly have scored.

It is important to have a proper debate after a defeat, but it is difficult to understand why you think that putting Gordon at full back has never worked and we should not mention 2010. The reason we need to look at 2010 is because it was our best season in the last two decades. With Gordon at full back, we conceded one goal from play in our final four games against the best teams left in the championship. Yesterday, Tyrone scored three goals and could easily have had at least another three. If we allow any opponents six or seven decent goal chances in the course of a match, we will lose and it will not matter who is at midfield. We know that full back may not be Gordon's best position, but the evidence is that it is where he is of most value to the team.

Although you ask who I would drop at the back, my previous post said that only Garvey played to the standard required yesterday. None of the others could complain if someone else was given a chance, even if it stretches our resources.

I would be inclined to go with Gordon at full back and McArdle and Dee Turley in the corners. McKernan is probably our best centre half, with Garvey and possibly Ryan Johnston outside him. We could try Ambrose, if fit, with Peter Turley at midfield, with Benny coming on after the break.

None of this is ideal, but we do not have enough quality to go round. If you have any better ideas, particularly for a full back,  then, as I said the last time, let us hear them.

ardtole

Ive been going to Down matches for thirty years and Ive never seen an Ardglass man start a minor or senior championship game, off the top of my head I can only think of Rory Sharvin from neighbours Kilclief who might have started a minor championship game over twenty years ago. I think someone from Bright may have played minor for Down in the early ninties. Yet when it comes to other sports local lads have no trouble getting recognised. Almost ever other year Ardglass would have someone representing Down at the Milk cup in soccer, some years there have been two representatives. Several local lads have represented  Ulster and Ireland in golf, a few locals are making a living at it and young Cormac Sharvin from Kilclief looks to have a big future ahead of them. Yet when it comes to GAA, every year a young fella will make through the trials play for Down in the league, get the tracksuit etc but come Spring, will be dropped once the newry colleges are finished in McCrory.

A couple of years ago Ruairi Sharvin from Kilclief was good enough to play midfield for the team that won the IFC, indeed he scored the decisive goal but wasnt deemed good enough to even make the minor county panel. Id wager if he had to have gone to the Abbey or St Colmans he would have been a key player for them and ironically probably would have been parachuted into the county team.

When Shea McCartan was home for the summer from Burnley FC, he was invited straight into the Down minor panel, when Chris Deegans was home from Southampton was he invited for even a trial? no, was Gerard McCargo offered a trial when he was home from Leeds? no was Neil Teggart when he was home from Sunderland? no. It seems one rule for the newry lads and another for our end of the county. It has got to the stage where young lads wont even bother going to county trials now, a waste of time you would be told, and its very difficult to argue with them.

Yet other similar sized clubs like Teconnaught, Drumaness, Tullylish, Glenn, Drumgath, Bredagh regulary have underage county representatives. We havent won a senior ulster title in twenty years, the current selection process is obviously not working, maybe the development squads that are in place now are a step in the right direction and we have lads on these teams but a lot of people would suggest that if it came down to the crunch and a place on the team/panel came down to an Ardglass/kilclief/ Saul/Bright player or a longstone, glassdrumman Darragh cross drumgath etc it would be the local lad who misses out.

Im not saying over the last thirty years Down have missed out on a few Benny Coulters but even in recent years county players like Jackie Lynch, John Lavery, Adrian Scullion,  John McAreavey, among others have played against Ardglass and to suggest we havent produced players as talented or better in thirty years is ridiculous. Gaa is at is lowest ebb in our area for as long as I can remember and maybe the county board could be more proactive in organising the schedules of the coaching officers, I would eonder if their diarys were examined how proportionate their visits to the Lecale clubs would be compared to the Newry and Mourne clubs.

guevara

The Game was lost on the sideline before a ball was kicked. Our style of play is shockingly bad & poor to watch. As mentioned already there is absolutely no penetration and 9 passes out of 10 are backwards or sidewards. Possession is everything yes, but when it leads to you getting turned over time after time it is worthless.

Ryan Johnston should have started. We are lacking pace going forward, When he came on he made Tyrone Defenders think a bit more and cover his lung bursting runs. Ryan Boyle is not a corner back & his pace is wasted in that position. Dan McCartan & him were caught defending the wrong side far too much.

While Dan Gordon stood and caught ball he is clearly nowhere near match fitness as all day he was caught out by Tyrone's kick outs. Many people commented on Morgans accuracy but he had 20 yards of space to play balls into because McKernan & Gordon didnt mark their men for kickouts.

McVeigh - No chance with the goals. Again this week a point came off the bar and looked poor talking between him and a defender.

McCartan - Poor most of the day and continually turned too easy

McArdle - Not the answer here. Looked to be badly caught out for the goal

Boyle - Like McCartan turned too easy at times and is wasted at corner back

Rooney - Doesnt look fit and was poor again this week

Carr - Poor penalty. Tried to cover his position but had little impact on the game.

Garvey - Down's best defender but offers little going forward.

Gordon - Poor marking all day. Best fielder of a ball we have but got outplayed.

McKernan - Best passer of a ball Down have by a country mile but lacks discipline to play Midfield. Doesn't mark

Maginn - Should have been taken off. Peter Harte made him look a very poor player.

Poland - Anonymous performance again. Not good enough for a Captain

Johnston - Lively all day and showed well with poor service

O'Hare - Doesn't do enough from open play & very rarely takes his man on unlike Tyrone's forwards at the other end.

Madine - Looks slow and awkward. Offered very little

Laverty - Showed well like his clubmate Johnston but service was terrible at times.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen"

Michael Jordan

SHEEDY

pretty good summary guevra, agree with most of your points. cant believe its now 20 years since we have won an ulster title, a whole generation has come and gone without seeing any success. at the minute you would have to say we are as far away as ever.
nil satis nisi optimum

east down gael

Hard to argue with anything Ardtole has said there.hes not saying that there have been a load of guys from his club overlooked for the senior county team,but that at underage level,particularly minor level,kids from certain clubs/areas of the county find it harder to get on the championship panel.i would agree with this completely.and the by product of it being that kids from those clubs have no interest in going to trials seems logical.which is a shame because,as Ardtole said with the example of mccargo and deegans,there are talented footballers in these clubs.
      If down are to reach their full potential and start to compete for ulster and all ireland titles again,it is essential that a large area such as lecale is producing county players.

urbangael

Flip sake ardglass struggle to get 15 out every week never mind have county players.... Too many down there playing soccer or in jail as Charlie says.

However there are quality players in east down clubs like castlewellan rurari mcardle springs to mind and Kilcoo Niall McEvoy springs to mind here that would certainly be better than dan McCartan or Boyle in corner back!!   

Early ball into the two Kilcoo lads was working last night but Down had to many players wanting to slow it down..... Particularly Poland and Carr.  Panel seems very unsettled all year for example last week Gordon was in a pub in omagh before the match then he starts midfield yesterday. I doubt this would happen in any other county in Ireland.  This management team has maybe run its course... Quite often change is a good thing!



MK

Michael Magee would have been the last Ardglass man to play for Down......iirc???
Big strong lad who was a fairly accurate Left footed-free taker.....whatevever happened him??
Quote from: charlieTully on May 25, 2014, 07:39:26 PM
Quote from: ardtole on May 25, 2014, 02:26:40 PM
Ive been going to Down matches for thirty years and Ive never seen an Ardglass man start a minor or senior championship game, off the top of my head I can only think of Rory Sharvin from neighbours Kilclief who might have started a minor championship game over twenty years ago. I think someone from Bright may have played minor for Down in the early ninties. Yet when it comes to other sports local lads have no trouble getting recognised. Almost ever other year Ardglass would have someone representing Down at the Milk cup in soccer, some years there have been two representatives. Several local lads have represented  Ulster and Ireland in golf, a few locals are making a living at it and young Cormac Sharvin from Kilclief looks to have a big future ahead of them. Yet when it comes to GAA, every year a young fella will make through the trials play for Down in the league, get the tracksuit etc but come Spring, will be dropped once the newry colleges are finished in McCrory.

A couple of years ago Ruairi Sharvin from Kilclief was good enough to play midfield for the team that won the IFC, indeed he scored the decisive goal but wasnt deemed good enough to even make the minor county panel. Id wager if he had to have gone to the Abbey or St Colmans he would have been a key player for them and ironically probably would have been parachuted into the county team.

When Shea McCartan was home for the summer from Burnley FC, he was invited straight into the Down minor panel, when Chris Deegans was home from Southampton was he invited for even a trial? no, was Gerard McCargo offered a trial when he was home from Leeds? no was Neil Teggart when he was home from Sunderland? no. It seems one rule for the newry lads and another for our end of the county. It has got to the stage where young lads wont even bother going to county trials now, a waste of time you would be told, and its very difficult to argue with them.

Yet other similar sized clubs like Teconnaught, Drumaness, Tullylish, Glenn, Drumgath, Bredagh regulary have underage county representatives. We havent won a senior ulster title in twenty years, the current selection process is obviously not working, maybe the development squads that are in place now are a step in the right direction and we have lads on these teams but a lot of people would suggest that if it came down to the crunch and a place on the team/panel came down to an Ardglass/kilclief/ Saul/Bright player or a longstone, glassdrumman Darragh cross drumgath etc it would be the local lad who misses out.

Im not saying over the last thirty years Down have missed out on a few Benny Coulters but even in recent years county players like Jackie Lynch, John Lavery, Adrian Scullion,  John McAreavey, among others have played against Ardglass and to suggest we havent produced players as talented or better in thirty years is ridiculous. Gaa is at is lowest ebb in our area for as long as I can remember and maybe the county board could be more proactive in organising the schedules of the coaching officers, I would eonder if their diarys were examined how proportionate their visits to the Lecale clubs would be compared to the Newry and Mourne clubs.

maybe in the qualifiers we will play the ardglass starting 15, that should steady the ship, then again they would all likely be red carded within 10 mins and arrested for GBH.
On a more serious note, Dan G was ok contesting ball in midfield but looked very pedastrian going forward and was like a extra Tyrone defender at times, his slowness broke up more attacks than tyrone, and that effort of a shot from 40 yards with two men running off his shoulder?, more a management fault though, its a big ask to come in fresh and be up to scratch in an ulster championship game, irrespective of flying in training shite, mornue rover mentioned maginn as having a brilliant first half, yet peter harte dominated him and pulled the strings for tyrone, his direct running is something hopefully ryan johnstone will equal in time but its a level he is not at as yet. harte was my mom by far, we were outclassed all over the field, if they had of took all their chances there could have been 30 in it. bleak days. maybe ardglass are the future.


Pangurban

Lads there is no point or justice in slagging off individual players. No one goes out to play badly. The truth is we are just not good enough. What little ability we do have is being suppressed by by tentative management who have more fear of losing than hope of winning. In all our games this past two years we have only produced big performances when we threw the shackles off and went for it . We are at our best going forward not playing lateral possession in our own half. So what if we we lose, lets at least give it a lash and go down fighting. We are all agreed that our back six are no great shakes defending , so let give our forwards a chance, to play as forwards not half backs

ardtole

MK, Michael Magee came on as a sub for the minors against Cavan, he wasnt deemed good enough to start yet almost turned the gane for Down. He did play u21s alright, the two lads he marked in the all ireland semi final from Mayo and the two lads from Cork who were in midfield in the final and his midfirld partner Fitzpatrick have all played in All Ireland Finals yet Mick never even got one minute of action in a national league game despite being on the panel for two years, maybe if he was as good as Packie Downey he would have been given an oppurtunity. Im sure if he was related to the Carrs or McCartans he would have had ten years of opportunity. He has transferrred to Rgu this year, maybe he thought his county chances were limited playing for Ardglass, we will know better when the new manager takes over next year.

downjim

Quote from: ardtole on May 26, 2014, 08:07:29 AM
MK, Michael Magee came on as a sub for the minors against Cavan, he wasnt deemed good enough to start yet almost turned the gane for Down. He did play u21s alright, the two lads he marked in the all ireland semi final from Mayo and the two lads from Cork who were in midfield in the final and his midfirld partner Fitzpatrick have all played in All Ireland Finals yet Mick never even got one minute of action in a national league game despite being on the panel for two years, maybe if he was as good as Packie Downey he would have been given an oppurtunity. Im sure if he was related to the Carrs or McCartans he would have had ten years of opportunity. He has transferrred to Rgu this year, maybe he thought his county chances were limited playing for Ardglass, we will know better when the new manager takes over next year.

No disrespect to Magee but he's nowhere near as talented as Packie. This East Down crap always surfaces every so often and its boring now. Apart from Kilcoo, Byransford, Castlewellan and Liatriom. East Down clubs are failing Down football in their failure to bring these talented players through. Newry Shamrock s are also in that failure bracket.

DownJim takes no prisoners!

PAULD123

Quote from: ardtole on May 26, 2014, 08:07:29 AM
MK, Michael Magee came on as a sub for the minors against Cavan, he wasnt deemed good enough to start yet almost turned the gane for Down. He did play u21s alright, the two lads he marked in the all ireland semi final from Mayo and the two lads from Cork who were in midfield in the final and his midfirld partner Fitzpatrick have all played in All Ireland Finals yet Mick never even got one minute of action in a national league game despite being on the panel for two years, maybe if he was as good as Packie Downey he would have been given an oppurtunity. Im sure if he was related to the Carrs or McCartans he would have had ten years of opportunity. He has transferrred to Rgu this year, maybe he thought his county chances were limited playing for Ardglass, we will know better when the new manager takes over next year.

In fairness it is more difficult for an east Down player to get noticed for County recognition than a South Down Player. Being physically far away from the South Down area and playing in Division 3 means that there will be relatively few opportunities for Ardglass players to come to the attention of the county management. But then again Paul McComiskey started an All-Ireland final despite being from East Down, playing for Kilkeel school and never getting out of division 3. So it isn't impossible.

I agree that it is strange that a man who played as well as Michael Magee in his younger days hasn't really had a chance. But then again he has been in the squad. Isn't that his chance? If he was out-fielding Dan Gordon and slamming in four goals every training session do you really think he wouldn't be on the starting team? I would agree with you if he had never been in the squad, but the fact that he gets offered the chance to show his merits but doesn't make a big enough impression to get a shirt tells me something. By the way I have seen him play and he isn't exactly the next Kieran Donaghy. Some players don't push on from minor -  for example Michael Walsh was one of the best in the country in his underage teams but never performed at county level.

I totally disagree that an Ardglass player would be discriminated against if he were in the county panel. Once he gets there he would have as good a shot as anyone (well maybe excluding blood relations of the manager). The problem is getting there in the first place. That is not as easy as if you were in Division 1. That's true.

DownFanatic

#22571
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 26, 2014, 02:29:31 PM
Quote from: ardtole on May 26, 2014, 08:07:29 AM
MK, Michael Magee came on as a sub for the minors against Cavan, he wasnt deemed good enough to start yet almost turned the gane for Down. He did play u21s alright, the two lads he marked in the all ireland semi final from Mayo and the two lads from Cork who were in midfield in the final and his midfirld partner Fitzpatrick have all played in All Ireland Finals yet Mick never even got one minute of action in a national league game despite being on the panel for two years, maybe if he was as good as Packie Downey he would have been given an oppurtunity. Im sure if he was related to the Carrs or McCartans he would have had ten years of opportunity. He has transferrred to Rgu this year, maybe he thought his county chances were limited playing for Ardglass, we will know better when the new manager takes over next year.

In fairness it is more difficult for an east Down player to get noticed for County recognition than a South Down Player. Being physically far away from the South Down area and playing in Division 3 means that there will be relatively few opportunities for Ardglass players to come to the attention of the county management. But then again Paul McComiskey started an All-Ireland final despite being from East Down, playing for Kilkeel school and never getting out of division 3. So it isn't impossible.

I agree that it is strange that a man who played as well as Michael Magee in his younger days hasn't really had a chance. But then again he has been in the squad. Isn't that his chance? If he was out-fielding Dan Gordon and slamming in four goals every training session do you really think he wouldn't be on the starting team? I would agree with you if he had never been in the squad, but the fact that he gets offered the chance to show his merits but doesn't make a big enough impression to get a shirt tells me something. By the way I have seen him play and he isn't exactly the next Kieran Donaghy. Some players don't push on from minor -  for example Michael Walsh was one of the best in the country in his underage teams but never performed at county level.

I totally disagree that an Ardglass player would be discriminated against if he were in the county panel. Once he gets there he would have as good a shot as anyone (well maybe excluding blood relations of the manager). The problem is getting there in the first place. That is not as easy as if you were in Division 1. That's true.

Just to flag you up on a few errors.

Paul McComiskey did not got to a Kilkeel school. He went to the Red High in Downpatrick.

Secondly, Dundrum were in the old Division 2 in 2008 after winning Division 3 in 2007 so you are wrong on that point as well. Paul played on the Down senior team in 2008 too.

When he played in the 2005 All Ireland Minor final we were Division 4, Division 3 in 2009 with the All Ireland U-21 final and Division 3 again in 2010 when he played in the All Ireland Senior final.

downjim

Mickey Walsh was MOTM v Cavan in Casement park one year. He performed well for Down but injuries cut short his career. He won numerous championships with his club. He had not a bad career after minor to be fair .

islandchampions08

Downs problem Is bigger than the tyrone game. too many players on the starting 15 not good enough. but they try their best so to come on here and slabber about a man who trains 4/5 times a week for the love of it (because apart from Dublin its an amateur sport) is cowardly.
the management need to have a look at themselves also. ryan Johnson gets 15 mins after being outstanding in 2nd half v tyrone in omagh. dan Gordon was put to full forward and the team decides to run with the ball while they humped high balls to Laverty.
James and co should be thanked for there effort and asked to close the door on the way out

downjim

You say it's not ok to slag players yet you slag the management  ::)
There were a few boys playing on Saturday not fully behind the wheel.