Maigh Eo v Ciarrai, 1700, 30ú Lúnasa, Gaelic Grounds

[Zulu]

He certainly does macdanger2 but he has the talent. Perhaps he won't do it this Sunday but he has the ability to compete with the Mayo boys, as does Maher.

[Crete Boom]

While I can understand why some think Mayo could beat Kerry comprehensively I don't expect that to happen. The Kerry jersey will give the younger players the confidence to perform (as trite as that sounds) and they still have plenty of quality in their team but if I was to pick a team made up of both squads then I think I'd have Hennelly plus four of the Mayo back six, the 8 and 9's on each team are probably about even and I'd have three of the Mayo forward line for sure. So that's 8-10 Mayo players and with the exception of O'Donoghue I think you could also make an argument for 5 Mayo forwards on a joint team, though some of them wouldn't be any better than the Kerry alternative.

You disagree? When SOS and David Moran were in UL together Moran was the star man on the Sigerson team. Although he has had serious injuries since then and SOS has grown into an excellent midfielder I don't think you could say there is a massive difference between a midfield pairing of Maher/Moran and Vaughan/O'Shea.

Mayo played Kerry when these two were U21. SOS & Parsons destroyed Moran and his MF partner for 45 minutes until Walsh was moved out to MF, Kerry broke even after that and won by a pt I think, possibly after et? Moran has a hell.of a lot to prove on Sunday.

I remember that game Mac , if I am right wasn't that the U21 semi-final where Aidan Campbell was dopped or kept on the bench for going out drinking in the run up to the match? 2008 I thinK it was and Kerry went in to beat Kildare that year?

[macdanger2]

Moran has potential alright but he must be 27 now? If he were to dominate on Sunday it would really kick start his career after all the injuries. I'd normally wish him well, but not on this occasion.....

Was that the same game Crete? I thought that Campbell incident was a year or two later but I couldn't be sure. Has he played for Mayo since??

[Keane]

Moran has potential alright but he must be 27 now? If he were to dominate on Sunday it would really kick start his career after all the injuries. I'd normally wish him well, but not on this occasion.....

Was that the same game Crete? I thought that Campbell incident was a year or two later but I couldn't be sure. Has he played for Mayo since??

David was minor in 2006 so is 25/26

[Syferus]

Moran has potential alright but he must be 27 now? If he were to dominate on Sunday it would really kick start his career after all the injuries. I'd normally wish him well, but not on this occasion.....

Was that the same game Crete? I thought that Campbell incident was a year or two later but I couldn't be sure. Has he played for Mayo since??

Career has been destroyed by injuries, only starting because Sheehan is crocked and Sheehan was hardly a dominating midfielder himself. He has a lot to prove to be able to cope with either O'Shea (they both will be roaming around the middle) or Gibbons if he starts.

Interesting that both counties have named who I would consider their best pure midfielders at CHF.

[Ballaghman]

Don't agree Mayo have frozen on the big day, they've lost finals to two of the best teams in the country. I'd be shocked if Mayo flop in any game they play in from now on, if they are good enough they'll win the All Ireland, if they aren't they won't.

Great to see a bit of sense being spoken Zulu, what's rare is wonderful! At least someone has taken a break from cliches and lazy stereotyping.

[Ballaghman]

Bold selection, even if I think there will be a change or two before the start.

Vaughan is being groomed for MDMA imho. That tells you how the management views the season panning out. I hope they are right. Looking at the Kerry selection, they could be.

Our season really starts on sunday.

Mdma would destroy that pup, Flynn owned him all over the park last year, Cannot wait to see what Mdma would do with him

I can only assume your memory is playing tricks on you squire but here's a quick refresher. Flynn, arguably Dublins best all round footballer, was given the job of minding Vaughan, not the other way around. He did a good job and kept Vaughan quiet but sacrificed his own game and had a quiet final by his standards. I'm actually not Vaughans biggest fan, he has limitations but this just shows the respect he commands in the dublin dressing room. He would match mdma stride for stride if he had to. I just hope after Sunday that's still a problem we need to worry about!

[Keane]

He would match mdma stride for stride if he had to.

In his dreams.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

While I can understand why some think Mayo could beat Kerry comprehensively I don't expect that to happen. The Kerry jersey will give the younger players the confidence to perform (as trite as that sounds) and they still have plenty of quality in their team but if I was to pick a team made up of both squads then I think I'd have Hennelly plus four of the Mayo back six, the 8 and 9's on each team are probably about even and I'd have three of the Mayo forward line for sure. So that's 8-10 Mayo players and with the exception of O'Donoghue I think you could also make an argument for 5 Mayo forwards on a joint team, though some of them wouldn't be any better than the Kerry alternative.

You disagree? When SOS and David Moran were in UL together Moran was the star man on the Sigerson team. Although he has had serious injuries since then and SOS has grown into an excellent midfielder I don't think you could say there is a massive difference between a midfield pairing of Maher/Moran and Vaughan/O'Shea.

Mayo played Kerry when these two were U21. SOS & Parsons destroyed Moran and his MF partner for 45 minutes until Walsh was moved out to MF, Kerry broke even after that and won by a pt I think, possibly after et? Moran has a hell.of a lot to prove on Sunday.

Was at that game in Nenagh. Exaggeration to say Mayo destroyed Kerry in midfield. Mayo were certainly on top in that sector (Parsons was outstanding more so than SOS I recall.) Moran had Alan O'Sullivan who is a forward with him in midfield, but was prominent enough himself without being spectacular. Tommy Walsh, as you say, made a big difference when he came out to midfield. Sadly, he's in Sydney right now.
Thing to remember with Moran is (and I'm guilty of forgetting this myself at times) he wasn't an out and out midfielder even up to minor level. Was half forward for the minor team in 2006 and it was only after that he pushed more into midfield. He played at full forward a lot with UL even. Added to the cruciate injuries and yes, he's been a slow burner. Playing good stuff all through the league this year though and gave an exhibition of fielding against a decent Galway midfield, so we'll see what happens Sunday.

[moysider]

Good first XV. Poor bench as usual. Like Lar I dunno where the optimism is from. Our collapses haven't been adressed. Kerry's bench to win for them.

You didn t get the selection you wanted Farr
It ll be head in hands time again I m afraid - he can hardly use him again can he? Its just cruelty.

While I wouldn t be as pessimistic as you Farr, I can see this go pear shaped. Kerry would be easier to fathom if Dec O Sull was playing quarterback. We would have the luxury of having a covering sweeper and our half backs run the channels. Knowing JH form we ll probably still see our hbs press forward leaving 3 markers on 3 Kerry forwards with acres of space to run into gain possession, turn and take on their men. If that happens we will concede heavily even if we dominate the middle third. In that scenario it wouldn t matter who marks O Donoghue because it looks like no single individual could do so successfully. Cunnifffe should be the man to do it though. Barrett just hasn t played enough to part of a 3 man full back line based on his form v Cork. I think how we set up at the back decides this one. Basically we need to double mark O Donoghue. I d start Gibbons and drop Vaughan back and play 2 inside and run the ball.

[bucko]

Good first XV. Poor bench as usual. Like Lar I dunno where the optimism is from. Our collapses haven't been adressed. Kerry's bench to win for them.

You didn t get the selection you wanted Farr
It ll be head in hands time again I m afraid - he can hardly use him again can he? Its just cruelty.

While I wouldn t be as pessimistic as you Farr, I can see this go pear shaped. Kerry would be easier to fathom if Dec O Sull was playing quarterback. We would have the luxury of having a covering sweeper and our half backs run the channels. Knowing JH form we ll probably still see our hbs press forward leaving 3 markers on 3 Kerry forwards with acres of space to run into gain possession, turn and take on their men. If that happens we will concede heavily even if we dominate the middle third. In that scenario it wouldn t matter who marks O Donoghue because it looks like no single individual could do so successfully. Cunnifffe should be the man to do it though. Barrett just hasn t played enough to part of a 3 man full back line based on his form v Cork. I think how we set up at the back decides this one. Basically we need to double mark O Donoghue. I d start Gibbons and drop Vaughan back and play 2 inside and run the ball.

I'm betting that we'll see Kerry play far more defensively than they have so far, keep it tight then unload the bench in the last 15-20 mins. Declan O'Sullivan not starting is surprising giving how key he appeared to be to Kerry's tactics v Cork and Galway. Whether it's by design (tactical) or necessity (injury) it does take a major playmaker off the pitch. Their bench does look impressive, and if fit worryingly so. But there does appear to be question marks over Sheehan and Declan O'Sullivan (injuries), Darran O'Sullivan (an outstanding player but is he the same since the hip surgery?) and Donaghy (form). If these factors are correct it's a gamble as to how much impact the Kerry bench could have.
Ourselves, I'm hoping Freeman and Gibbons start, as per the rumours. Mainly because I believe we need some form of forward impact off the bench, be it Andy or Alan. I believe we should be starting one or the other of them but not both. Also, while his form/ confidence hasn't been great so far this year, I think Freeman might pose a problem to the Kerry full back line that they may not have been planning on, especially if O'Mahony starts there. Gibbons coming in would give more mobility around the middle, to get back and help out the full back line. I believe we can win it, but it is going to take what we showed in the third quarter v Cork for a hell of a lot longer than 15 mins.

[moysider]

Good first XV. Poor bench as usual. Like Lar I dunno where the optimism is from. Our collapses haven't been adressed. Kerry's bench to win for them.

You didn t get the selection you wanted Farr
It ll be head in hands time again I m afraid - he can hardly use him again can he? Its just cruelty.

While I wouldn t be as pessimistic as you Farr, I can see this go pear shaped. Kerry would be easier to fathom if Dec O Sull was playing quarterback. We would have the luxury of having a covering sweeper and our half backs run the channels. Knowing JH form we ll probably still see our hbs press forward leaving 3 markers on 3 Kerry forwards with acres of space to run into gain possession, turn and take on their men. If that happens we will concede heavily even if we dominate the middle third. In that scenario it wouldn t matter who marks O Donoghue because it looks like no single individual could do so successfully. Cunnifffe should be the man to do it though. Barrett just hasn t played enough to part of a 3 man full back line based on his form v Cork. I think how we set up at the back decides this one. Basically we need to double mark O Donoghue. I d start Gibbons and drop Vaughan back and play 2 inside and run the ball.

I'm betting that we'll see Kerry play far more defensively than they have so far, keep it tight then unload the bench in the last 15-20 mins. Declan O'Sullivan not starting is surprising giving how key he appeared to be to Kerry's tactics v Cork and Galway. Whether it's by design (tactical) or necessity (injury) it does take a major playmaker off the pitch. Their bench does look impressive, and if fit worryingly so. But there does appear to be question marks over Sheehan and Declan O'Sullivan (injuries), Darran O'Sullivan (an outstanding player but is he the same since the hip surgery?) and Donaghy (form). If these factors are correct it's a gamble as to how much impact the Kerry bench could have.
Ourselves, I'm hoping Freeman and Gibbons start, as per the rumours. Mainly because I believe we need some form of forward impact off the bench, be it Andy or Alan. I believe we should be starting one or the other of them but not both. Also, while his form/ confidence hasn't been great so far this year, I think Freeman might pose a problem to the Kerry full back line that they may not have been planning on, especially if O'Mahony starts there. Gibbons coming in would give more mobility around the middle, to get back and help out the full back line. I believe we can win it, but it is going to take what we showed in the third quarter v Cork for a hell of a lot longer than 15 mins.

I think it s tactical. As I said in earlier post Dec O Sull sitting deep would leave us with a spare defender. As long as we ran the ball and closed him down quick when he was in possession we could limit his influence and he would probably have to go back inside. I think Fitzmaurice is second guessing how we would set up against him and realises that O Sull would not get the time and space he did against Cork and Galway. If I were Fitzmaurice I d try and win the game like this. Actually this is what I think Fitzmaurice is expecting to happen. It s not rocket science. Mayo very predictable.

Isolate O Donoghue and maybe Geaney inside and hope Horan leaves them 1 on 1 with 2 defenders. Horan usually does that so Fitzmaurice would be fairly confident of a couple of goals early on in that scenario.

Everybody knows now that Mayo struggle against teams that get players back. Tyrone, Roscommon, Galway and Cork in the first half we found very hard to break down. Galway didn t do blanket defence too well and Cork were only doing it for the second time and we still had problems. Kerry have a much better defensive game. If we concede early goals we will be trying to run through a brick wall. Turnovers will happen and concede more soft scores on counter attack.

So if we put these 2 scenarios together it is obvious how Kerry can win. I can t see Mayo change their shape at this stage so it is probably going to be down to Kerry forwards taking goal chances that they probably will get early and often.

I don t think the Kerry bench -while impressive - will decide things. Kerry can win this tactically.

[larryin89]

When Galway ran straight at them, it was like a knife through butter, Mayo and esp AOS are gon to murder the kerry defence.

25/1 for 16 point plus victory for Mayo. worth a score. It ill pay for the citywest for final weekend.

[bucko]

Good first XV. Poor bench as usual. Like Lar I dunno where the optimism is from. Our collapses haven't been adressed. Kerry's bench to win for them.

You didn t get the selection you wanted Farr
It ll be head in hands time again I m afraid - he can hardly use him again can he? Its just cruelty.

While I wouldn t be as pessimistic as you Farr, I can see this go pear shaped. Kerry would be easier to fathom if Dec O Sull was playing quarterback. We would have the luxury of having a covering sweeper and our half backs run the channels. Knowing JH form we ll probably still see our hbs press forward leaving 3 markers on 3 Kerry forwards with acres of space to run into gain possession, turn and take on their men. If that happens we will concede heavily even if we dominate the middle third. In that scenario it wouldn t matter who marks O Donoghue because it looks like no single individual could do so successfully. Cunnifffe should be the man to do it though. Barrett just hasn t played enough to part of a 3 man full back line based on his form v Cork. I think how we set up at the back decides this one. Basically we need to double mark O Donoghue. I d start Gibbons and drop Vaughan back and play 2 inside and run the ball.

I'm betting that we'll see Kerry play far more defensively than they have so far, keep it tight then unload the bench in the last 15-20 mins. Declan O'Sullivan not starting is surprising giving how key he appeared to be to Kerry's tactics v Cork and Galway. Whether it's by design (tactical) or necessity (injury) it does take a major playmaker off the pitch. Their bench does look impressive, and if fit worryingly so. But there does appear to be question marks over Sheehan and Declan O'Sullivan (injuries), Darran O'Sullivan (an outstanding player but is he the same since the hip surgery?) and Donaghy (form). If these factors are correct it's a gamble as to how much impact the Kerry bench could have.
Ourselves, I'm hoping Freeman and Gibbons start, as per the rumours. Mainly because I believe we need some form of forward impact off the bench, be it Andy or Alan. I believe we should be starting one or the other of them but not both. Also, while his form/ confidence hasn't been great so far this year, I think Freeman might pose a problem to the Kerry full back line that they may not have been planning on, especially if O'Mahony starts there. Gibbons coming in would give more mobility around the middle, to get back and help out the full back line. I believe we can win it, but it is going to take what we showed in the third quarter v Cork for a hell of a lot longer than 15 mins.

I think it s tactical. As I said in earlier post Dec O Sull sitting deep would leave us with a spare defender. As long as we ran the ball and closed him down quick when he was in possession we could limit his influence and he would probably have to go back inside. I think Fitzmaurice is second guessing how we would set up against him and realises that O Sull would not get the time and space he did against Cork and Galway. If I were Fitzmaurice I d try and win the game like this. Actually this is what I think Fitzmaurice is expecting to happen. It s not rocket science. Mayo very predictable.

Isolate O Donoghue and maybe Geaney inside and hope Horan leaves them 1 on 1 with 2 defenders. Horan usually does that so Fitzmaurice would be fairly confident of a couple of goals early on in that scenario.

Everybody knows now that Mayo struggle against teams that get players back. Tyrone, Roscommon, Galway and Cork in the first half we found very hard to break down. Galway didn t do blanket defence too well and Cork were only doing it for the second time and we still had problems. Kerry have a much better defensive game. If we concede early goals we will be trying to run through a brick wall. Turnovers will happen and concede more soft scores on counter attack.

So if we put these 2 scenarios together it is obvious how Kerry can win. I can t see Mayo change their shape at this stage so it is probably going to be down to Kerry forwards taking goal chances that they probably will get early and often.

We still beat these teams at the end of the day. Our better spells against Galway and Cork were while they were still playing defensively, it was when Cork and to a lesser extent Galway reverted to more conventional open play that they caused more problems IMO (our lads giving the Cork backs loads of space in the last quarter to win easy short kick outs didn't help either, especially when we were closing them down earlier in the game) The flaw of playing a predominantly defensive system is that if you don't have either a good running counter attack or a good long range kick passer to exploit any turnover ball your defence wins means the likelihood of getting turned over again as you try to work out of your own half is very high, which is a big part of our game. Eventually the system gets overloaded and breaks appear. This is exactly what Dublin did to Monaghan. Declan O'Sullivan to my mind was the main out player in this Kerry defensive set up, if it's a tactical move it's a big gamble.

[moysider]

Good first XV. Poor bench as usual. Like Lar I dunno where the optimism is from. Our collapses haven't been adressed. Kerry's bench to win for them.

You didn t get the selection you wanted Farr
It ll be head in hands time again I m afraid - he can hardly use him again can he? Its just cruelty.

While I wouldn t be as pessimistic as you Farr, I can see this go pear shaped. Kerry would be easier to fathom if Dec O Sull was playing quarterback. We would have the luxury of having a covering sweeper and our half backs run the channels. Knowing JH form we ll probably still see our hbs press forward leaving 3 markers on 3 Kerry forwards with acres of space to run into gain possession, turn and take on their men. If that happens we will concede heavily even if we dominate the middle third. In that scenario it wouldn t matter who marks O Donoghue because it looks like no single individual could do so successfully. Cunnifffe should be the man to do it though. Barrett just hasn t played enough to part of a 3 man full back line based on his form v Cork. I think how we set up at the back decides this one. Basically we need to double mark O Donoghue. I d start Gibbons and drop Vaughan back and play 2 inside and run the ball.

I'm betting that we'll see Kerry play far more defensively than they have so far, keep it tight then unload the bench in the last 15-20 mins. Declan O'Sullivan not starting is surprising giving how key he appeared to be to Kerry's tactics v Cork and Galway. Whether it's by design (tactical) or necessity (injury) it does take a major playmaker off the pitch. Their bench does look impressive, and if fit worryingly so. But there does appear to be question marks over Sheehan and Declan O'Sullivan (injuries), Darran O'Sullivan (an outstanding player but is he the same since the hip surgery?) and Donaghy (form). If these factors are correct it's a gamble as to how much impact the Kerry bench could have.
Ourselves, I'm hoping Freeman and Gibbons start, as per the rumours. Mainly because I believe we need some form of forward impact off the bench, be it Andy or Alan. I believe we should be starting one or the other of them but not both. Also, while his form/ confidence hasn't been great so far this year, I think Freeman might pose a problem to the Kerry full back line that they may not have been planning on, especially if O'Mahony starts there. Gibbons coming in would give more mobility around the middle, to get back and help out the full back line. I believe we can win it, but it is going to take what we showed in the third quarter v Cork for a hell of a lot longer than 15 mins.

I think it s tactical. As I said in earlier post Dec O Sull sitting deep would leave us with a spare defender. As long as we ran the ball and closed him down quick when he was in possession we could limit his influence and he would probably have to go back inside. I think Fitzmaurice is second guessing how we would set up against him and realises that O Sull would not get the time and space he did against Cork and Galway. If I were Fitzmaurice I d try and win the game like this. Actually this is what I think Fitzmaurice is expecting to happen. It s not rocket science. Mayo very predictable.

Isolate O Donoghue and maybe Geaney inside and hope Horan leaves them 1 on 1 with 2 defenders. Horan usually does that so Fitzmaurice would be fairly confident of a couple of goals early on in that scenario.

Everybody knows now that Mayo struggle against teams that get players back. Tyrone, Roscommon, Galway and Cork in the first half we found very hard to break down. Galway didn t do blanket defence too well and Cork were only doing it for the second time and we still had problems. Kerry have a much better defensive game. If we concede early goals we will be trying to run through a brick wall. Turnovers will happen and concede more soft scores on counter attack.

So if we put these 2 scenarios together it is obvious how Kerry can win. I can t see Mayo change their shape at this stage so it is probably going to be down to Kerry forwards taking goal chances that they probably will get early and often.

We still beat these teams at the end of the day. Our better spells against Galway and Cork were while they were still playing defensively, it was when Cork and to a lesser extent Galway reverted to more conventional open play that they caused more problems IMO (our lads giving the Cork backs loads of space in the last quarter to win easy short kick outs didn't help either, especially when we were closing them down earlier in the game) The flaw of playing a predominantly defensive system is that if you don't have either a good running counter attack or a good long range kick passer to exploit any turnover ball your defence wins means the likelihood of getting turned over again as you try to work out of your own half is very high, which is a big part of our game. Eventually the system gets overloaded and breaks appear. This is exactly what Dublin did to Monaghan. Declan O'Sullivan to my mind was the main out player in this Kerry defensive set up, if it's a tactical move it's a big gamble.

I don t think it s a big gamble. It s practical and Fitzmaurice knows that Mayo are a different kettle of fish than what he s faced so far. As regards beating Cork in the end - well that could have gone the other way and where would we be now? You take that win but you don t repeat the moves that allowed that close finish to happen. That should have been a coasting win.

I take your point about our best periods when Galway and Cork were playing defensively. But when you think about it that s the scary bit. Both Cork and Galway realised that they d be better off going on the offensive. Kerry will have noted that. We leave ourselves exposed at the back and are wasteful with goal chances. What s not to like about that from a Kerry point of view. Our problem as well is not so much about having a long distance kick passer ( we ve loads of counterattacking runners), we don t have many lads that can win ball and play inside. Kerry can make this a battle between the respective full forward lines and full back lines if they think they have the edge there.