Round 4 Qualfier: Armagh v Meath

[Syferus]

It's tough alright but it's easier for a team like Armagh to deal with losing a defensive player rather than someone like Clarke, given the system of play.

Without McKeever's passes inside Armagh might start looking very average indeed. If anything it's a bigger loss than Clarke right now.

[JP]

It's tough alright but it's easier for a team like Armagh to deal with losing a defensive player rather than someone like Clarke, given the system of play.

That's true though he was a great driving force going forward. I reckon Aaron Kernan will come in and be our main man for getting the ball forward quickly.

[Throw ball]

It's tough alright but it's easier for a team like Armagh to deal with losing a defensive player rather than someone like Clarke, given the system of play.

Without McKeever's passes inside Armagh might start looking very average indeed. If anything it's a bigger loss than Clarke right now.

Maybe not as big a loss as Clarke but the next biggest in any case.

[thejuice]

Oisín writing for GAA.ie

Didn't realise we had an annual troidí with Armagh back in the day.

Let me start by taking you back to a time when Gaelic football was a bit different. When I first broke onto the Armagh senior football panel in the 1990s, I discovered that an annual ritual took place every year in Navan, a couple of weeks before the start of the championship.
It was the toughest, most physical environment you could ever end up in as a Gaelic footballer. It just used to always end in fights and rows. The chosen referee of the day was obviously given instructions to let a lot of things go, because his whistle hardly blew.
Meath and Armagh used to meet every year without fail in what I can only describe as a war of a challenge game around late April or early May. The game was often held behind closed doors and it's a blessing that it was because it literally was war. I don't know where the idea for the game started, I don't know who drove the staging of it, but I'd love to know who did because I would have told them to drive it in another direction!
It was the toughest, most physical environment you could ever end up in as a Gaelic footballer. It just used to always end in fights and rows. The chosen referee of the day was obviously given instructions to let a lot of things go, because his whistle hardly blew. And with that being the case, it meant a row was the only way to settle any grievances that happened. It usually would be sparked with Graham Geraghty and Ger Reid going at each other, and then everyone else would get stuck in.
When I first started to realise what was going on in this game, I was probably about 10 stone at most. So it was hardly the game for me, and I rarely played much football in them. But I remember in the dressing room before those games, the likes of Kieran McGeeney and Ger Reid were just relishing the prospect of going out and getting stuck into Meath. We had plenty of tough boys like Ger and Kieran, Diarmuid Marsden and Barry O'Hagan, and they had no bother matching up to Meath in the physical stakes.
But we nearly always came out the wrong side of it. I found it all quite amusing to be honest, as a young lad new to the scene. You'd have these brawls on the field - brutal and serious as they happened - and then at the end of it, everyone just moved on and forgot about it. Brushed it over, got into their cars, drove home and that was that. Well, that was that at least until the Battle of Páirc Táilteann the following year...

By the time Joe Kernan came on the scene with Armagh, he saw the folly in going down every year and taking a hammering so he brought a swift end to that particular ritual. But I always think of those games when I think of Meath.
When I think of Meath football, I think of the toughest, hardest battles I've ever been in in my life on a football field. They just had something about them. There was no Mick Lyons for Meath by the time I came along, but they still carried the aura that he had represented when he was there. John McDermott, Enda McManus, Darren Fay, players like that. They were just a big, tough physical outfit.
We played them in the 1999 All-Ireland semi-final, and came up just short of them by a few points. It was a strange game for me personally because my father was terminally ill at the time and I wasn't sure if I was going to go and play that game. My family, in particular my mother, convinced me to play in the end as it's what my father wanted, but it was a strange experience.
I remember we had a serious air of confidence about us going into that game, but from early on you knew it was going to be very tough. There's a famous shot of Tony McEntee and Fay colliding at one stage, and it summed up how physical a contest it was. I was marking Mark O'Reilly at first that day, and then Darren Fay was switched onto me. I actually had my hands on the ball a lot, especially in the first half, but I didn't get a score, and I'd have to say Fay had a lot to do with that.
We were well in the game at half-time, but we had Ger Reid sent off after the break and it just sort of went away from us from there. Looking back now though, that game was a very important one for us in terms of our development. We thought we were there. We had just won our first Ulster title, and while we celebrated it, we didn't over-celebrate it. We were focused on Meath and winning the All-Ireland but we just needed a few more years, and the injection of a few more young players, to push on.

Although it's a very different situation now, this Saturday's game against Meath in Croke Park is another important milestone for Armagh, who I am happy to say, have had a real resurgence this season. Armagh are a completely different team, squad and set-up to what they were this time last year. Last year, the big thing about Armagh was that they played 15 on 15, man on man and it was shambolic at times. We looked very, very poor, in particular against Cavan and Galway. We exposed a lot of our defenders and left ourselves open to a lot of criticism.
Armagh have clearly learned from that and learned from the defeats. But what has really impressed me recently is that Armagh are now learning from their victories - which is the big trick in modern Gaelic football. There has been a real progression since the win over Cavan in the Ulster quarter-final. We should have beaten Monaghan the first day out in the semi-final, and while there were some system malfunctions in the replay that cost us, the wins over Tyrone and Roscommon have been very encouraging.
The last day out against Roscommon, Armagh were impressive. They were very solid defensively, brought players back, lined them across the '45', and invited teams onto them. They turned over Roscommon 12 times in the first half alone. But what pleases me most is the fact that we have evolved in attack as well. We have mixed solid defence with a team that are also now pretty good going forward.
Kevin Dyas at centre half forward plays a big role in that. He is the outlet ball when Armagh move out from defence. He makes the run left and right because the space is there. He can link the ball, he can hold it up, he can pop it off his shoulder. And invariably, Armagh have players coming off the shoulder at speed. Or, if the kickpass is on, Armagh can deliver that too with players like Aaron Kernan, McKeever, Dyas and others all well capable of playing quality ball into the forwards.
There's a structure there now. We had 10 different scorers against Roscommon, got 1-13 from play and managed to get defenders forward a lot as well. Another major plus against Roscommon and this season in general is Aaron Findon at midfield. He has really stepped up to the mark, and I think he is exactly the sort of player we have missed since Paul McGrane retired. A midfielder who can hold his own in the middle, who is strong physically, good defensively, and who is able to get forward and punch a point.
Armagh have clearly learned a lot from last season and from earlier this season. Kieran McGeeney will get a lot of the credit for it because he's new to the set-up, but I think you have to give both him and Paul Grimley credit. They will have sat down at the start of the season, and the players will have had an input too, and asked themselves what's the best way to take the team forward? Let's look back again quickly - I watched Armagh get beaten by Tyrone in the McKenna Cup earlier this year and lose by 24 points. It was just so inept that day it was incredible.

Thankfully, things changed from there on. The full-back line got more protection during the league and Ciarán McKeever started to drop into that sweeper role, which he played so well in against Roscommon. It wasn't blanket defence or anything like that, but it was the start of an evolution which came to full fruition in the win against Cavan. Armagh basically knew going into that game if they went 15 on 15 against Cavan for the second year in a row, there was a chance they could get beaten, whereas if they lined out in same way Cavan did, they would beat them for the simple reason that they have better players and better forwards. So that's what they did and it worked. And that's been the basis for the rest of the summer.
Once it worked against Cavan, it was easy to show the players that this was the way to go, because one thing I've learned from being in dressing rooms all my life is that it's easy for a manager to sell an idea to his players if it has already worked. So it has evolved and Armagh are now in a pretty good place.
Getting back to Croke Park is a big deal for Armagh as well. It will be the first time we have played there since 2010, and playing on that stage is something a lot of these Armagh players want and need in their careers. It all feeds into an overall positive mood that is back in the county. It re-instils a little bit of belief. Armagh had a terrible league campaign, and off the back of a terrible league campaign it's very easy to go into your shell and think it's over. But that hasn't been the case. There have been basically no defections this year, unlike last year, and that's a big thing and a good sign for a squad. A sign that the mood is good.
So I would say the buzz is back. When Kieran McGeeney came back in, that did a lot for the mood in the county and instantly, it seemed to become cool again to play for Armagh. A lot of club players had opted out for a while because they didn't see Armagh going anywhere. Now though, players around the county are trying desperately to get into the squad, rather than get out of it, as has been the case at times over the last few seasons.
I will stress here though – I'm not getting carried away. I talked at the start of this piece about going back to a not-so-distant time when Gaelic football was a very different sport to what it is today. A time when Meath and Armagh were genuine All-Ireland contenders. The reality now is that neither of them are able to put a hand on the likes of Dublin (Meath have already found this out), and there is something I find genuinely sad about that.

That said, this is an important game for both counties and both will see it as a big chance for them to get to the All-Ireland quarter-finals. For Meath, they can either have a serious reaction to the hammering they got in the Leinster final or they can retreat even further into their shells and fall away. The easy thing for me to say here would be 'And if know Meath people, they won't retreat into their shell', but the truth is, I don't know. I find it hard to weigh this Meath team up.
I saw them a few times during the league. I saw them lose to Armagh, but then I saw them cut through and beat a Down team that was playing very defensive football against them. So they have something about them. They looked like relegation fodder at one stage and they were able to stay up. They are very fast, and they hurt Kildare in the semi-final with that, but the thing that really strikes me about them is their lack of physicality.
Given what I said before about what I thought of when I thought about Meath football, that in itself is a big reflection on how much things have changed in the landscape since the days when I was playing. So Armagh will definitely try to exploit that. Meath still have plenty of strengths that can hurt Armagh though. They have an excellent goalkeeper in Paddy O'Rourke, and they have fast, accurate forwards. The other thing is that they will realise very quickly in this game that they are not playing Dublin. That will be psychologically important and when I think of all those things, I see this as a pretty even game.

One thing I do know though is that it will be different to the Meath Armagh games I played in. I'm not entirely sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

[Never beat the deeler]

Oisín writing for GAA.ie

Didn't realise we had an annual troidí with Armagh back in the day.

It was just considered a normal game for the Meath team of those days

To everyone else it "literally was war" (Oisin's words, not mine)

[Jinxy]

I enjoyed that article.
Those were the days.....

[thejuice]

Ah yeah, God be with the days when we played real football

[Jinxy]

Look at Bruce Lee flying in from the left. 

[Syferus]

Sure Liam Hayes was the one calling the Roscommon team if the early 90's the All-Ireland Challenge Champions such was our intensity. Armagh were only playing a cheap imitation of the real thing in those games.

[Applesisapples]

I still don't get why a quality player like AK doesn't start. I'd always start my best 15.

[Zip Code]

I still don't get why a quality player like AK doesn't start. I'd always start my best 15.

I think it's a masterclass introducing him each time and one which is working to great effect for Armagh.

[you take er!]

It's tough alright but it's easier for a team like Armagh to deal with losing a defensive player rather than someone like Clarke, given the system of play.

Without McKeever's passes inside Armagh might start looking very average indeed. If anything it's a bigger loss than Clarke right now.

And you know so much about the Armagh team do you? McKeever is certainly a miss but I believe we have players who can pass the ball from the back line...stick to Roscommon.

[Syferus]

It's tough alright but it's easier for a team like Armagh to deal with losing a defensive player rather than someone like Clarke, given the system of play.

Without McKeever's passes inside Armagh might start looking very average indeed. If anything it's a bigger loss than Clarke right now.

And you know so much about the Armagh team do you? McKeever is certainly a miss but I believe we have players who can pass the ball from the back line...stick to Roscommon.

Chippy buck, aren't ya? Anyone with eyes can see how important McKeever is to that team as a leader and as a player. He isn't easily replaceable nor is being able to pass the ball the sum of his worth to Armagh.

[Oraisteach]

So, who do we have to replace McKeever?  Aaron Kernan can certainly move the ball from the back, but he lacks that Stonewall Jackson quality that McK possesses.  Bring in Finn Mo?  Tough enough but not exactly a Franz Beckanbauer mid-defense general, though certainly likely to amass as many yellows and blacks as McK.  Charlie Vernon might be a near fit, but don't want to shake up a fullback line that's holding its own.  Any number of subs can fill the position, but none, I think, can exert anything close to McK's influence.  As others have noted, a significant loss, one that makes our defense more porous and our attack a little more stodgy.  Anyone want to propose a starting 15?

Is it confirmed that C McK is officially out? 

[Jinxy]

Mind games.