Video in Good Shepherd Chapel - Niamh Horan

[The Iceman]

I think we're saying the same thing muppet. Remorse and acts of reconciliation should go hand in hand. I just don't know what would be enough.
Everyone has different ideas and different expectations and if they are not met it still won't be enough. Some people won't be happy until the RC Church is on its knees or buried and maybe rightly so in their eyes.
I'm hopeful things will be mended - I just don't think that will happen soon. Our new Pope will hopefully turn his attention to this and I have a feeling he is the right man for the job.

[muppet]

I think we're saying the same thing muppet. Remorse and acts of reconciliation should go hand in hand. I just don't know what would be enough.
Everyone has different ideas and different expectations and if they are not met it still won't be enough. Some people won't be happy until the RC Church is on its knees or buried and maybe rightly so in their eyes.
I'm hopeful things will be mended - I just don't think that will happen soon. Our new Pope will hopefully turn his attention to this and I have a feeling he is the right man for the job.

The Vatican is still denying all responsibility and blaming local Churches. Remember - 'We believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church'

It hides behind legal and technical arguments and hasn't, in my opinion, displayed good faith to date in its efforts to deals with the child abuse.

That is not demanding that the church be buried, in fact I would argue it is the opposite - demanding that the Church stops burying itself.

[The Iceman]

I think we're saying the same thing muppet. Remorse and acts of reconciliation should go hand in hand. I just don't know what would be enough.
Everyone has different ideas and different expectations and if they are not met it still won't be enough. Some people won't be happy until the RC Church is on its knees or buried and maybe rightly so in their eyes.
I'm hopeful things will be mended - I just don't think that will happen soon. Our new Pope will hopefully turn his attention to this and I have a feeling he is the right man for the job.

The Vatican is still denying all responsibility and blaming local Churches. Remember - 'We believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church'

It hides behind legal and technical arguments and hasn't, in my opinion, displayed good faith to date in its efforts to deals with the child abuse.

That is not demanding that the church be buried, in fact I would argue it is the opposite - demanding that the Church stops burying itself.

The Church does need to accept universal responsibility for what happened - I agree with that. I just don't know what the civil implications would be for that. It's one thing to say it should be done and I'm sure I'm not the only Catholic who agrees with you - i just don't know what happens next.
I will say that in my understanding of the hierarchy of the RC Church that the guys on the ground act as the Vatican acts so although there may be no legal or formal structure to follow (which allows them to hide) there is a 'do as I do' attitude.
I think the U.S RC Church have done a better (not perfect) job of responding to the abuse in the U.S and still have a long way to go.
I appreciate the serious discussion on the matter. What happens next has wider implications for millions of people in Ireland. Personally I would like to see our new Pope remove Sean Brady from office and put some structure and money in place to pay victims. I think a Papal visit would help a lot too.

[muppet]

I think we're saying the same thing muppet. Remorse and acts of reconciliation should go hand in hand. I just don't know what would be enough.
Everyone has different ideas and different expectations and if they are not met it still won't be enough. Some people won't be happy until the RC Church is on its knees or buried and maybe rightly so in their eyes.
I'm hopeful things will be mended - I just don't think that will happen soon. Our new Pope will hopefully turn his attention to this and I have a feeling he is the right man for the job.

The Vatican is still denying all responsibility and blaming local Churches. Remember - 'We believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church'

It hides behind legal and technical arguments and hasn't, in my opinion, displayed good faith to date in its efforts to deals with the child abuse.

That is not demanding that the church be buried, in fact I would argue it is the opposite - demanding that the Church stops burying itself.

The Church does need to accept universal responsibility for what happened - I agree with that. I just don't know what the civil implications would be for that. It's one thing to say it should be done and I'm sure I'm not the only Catholic who agrees with you - i just don't know what happens next.
I will say that in my understanding of the hierarchy of the RC Church that the guys on the ground act as the Vatican acts so although there may be no legal or formal structure to follow (which allows them to hide) there is a 'do as I do' attitude.
I think the U.S RC Church have done a better (not perfect) job of responding to the abuse in the U.S and still have a long way to go.
I appreciate the serious discussion on the matter. What happens next has wider implications for millions of people in Ireland. Personally I would like to see our new Pope remove Sean Brady from office and put some structure and money in place to pay victims. I think a Papal visit would help a lot too.

I agree and I think this is Pope is the right man to make such a visit.

I disagree on the comment 'there may be no legal or formal structure to follow' though as they all follow Canon Law, literally religiously.

[Pangurban]

Lads there is a huge measure of agreement between everyone participating in this discussion. Everyone accepts that many priests and virtually all of the Hierarchy dragged the Church into disrepute. The question at issue is what is to be done about it. The response of some people is to walk away and castigate the whole Church. For my part i believe, if you have something of value which has become stained and dirty, you would not just break it or cast it aside, you would try to clean it and restore it to former glory. By former glory i do not mean power or prominence, rather it is the humility of service of a Church broken but maintaining a repository of truth and the accumulated wisdom of centuries. Reform is necessary and i believe worth fighting for. Others take a different view preferring the destruction of the Church. To them i have nothing to say ,other than i dont envy them the society they will be left with,if they prevail. There have been many dark episodes in the Church throughout its history, and doubtless there will be many more. That is the nature of Man, but the Church is also divine, and this will ensure its survival. Our first priority must be to address and redress as far as humanly possibly the victims of our failure. Then and only then can we move forward with renewed joy and optimism

[T Fearon]

Generally catholic church has and receives far too much criticism.There have been more than a few paedos in the GAA, and at least one in a high position who is or was accommodated in the best seats post conviction.Does that mean the GAA and all of us in it are corrupt?

It is impossible for an institution with a worldwide membership to be controlled by one man from a small part of Rome,therefore the Vatican is quite right to lay the blame on the churches in the different countries.

Time to blame the relatively few perpetrators and not the Church in general

[Sidney]

Generally catholic church has and receives far too much criticism.There have been more than a few paedos in the GAA, and at least one in a high position who is or was accommodated in the best seats post conviction.Does that mean the GAA and all of us in it are corrupt?

It is impossible for an institution with a worldwide membership to be controlled by one man from a small part of Rome,therefore the Vatican is quite right to lay the blame on the churches in the different countries.

Time to blame the relatively few perpetrators and not the Church in general

An acceptable level of paedophilia is surely acceptable. If there are 200 million priests in the world and, say, 5% of them are paedophiles, that's still only 10 milliion.

[muppet]

Generally catholic church has and receives far too much criticism.There have been more than a few paedos in the GAA, and at least one in a high position who is or was accommodated in the best seats post conviction.Does that mean the GAA and all of us in it are corrupt?

It is impossible for an institution with a worldwide membership to be controlled by one man from a small part of Rome,therefore the Vatican is quite right to lay the blame on the churches in the different countries.

Time to blame the relatively few perpetrators and not the Church in general

I know there is no point but......

The people in charge of the Church, in The Vatican, refuse to cooperate with investigations all over the world. Until they cooperate fully they will deserve all the criticism thrown their way. Many of us simply want to see natural justice for the victims.

They are effectively pleading the 5th, which to my mind goes against everything they are supposed to stand for.

[T Fearon]

What information does the Pope have about alleged child abuse in a small parish in say the West of Ireland? Successive British and Irish governments refuse to release information about the 1974 Dublin bombings. Are all politicians corrupt?

If the authorities have sufficient information about child abuse,arrest the suspects and compel their co operation.Plenty of clergy have appeared in court and have been convicted and jailed.I didn't hear any protests from any Bishops or Popes claiming they're innocent and calling for their release.

[theskull1]

Iceman
In my analogy I've replaced Tony Fearon with the hard line Nazi, not the Church. I've no issue with local parishioners priests being extremely unhappy about the incident so I'm directing nothing at them

Tony's latest posts aligning Church leaderships behaviours with the political classes show just how unwilling he is to accept that the church has to proactively demonstrate moral leadership and responsibility if they want society's to see they practice what they preach.

Tonys not far off comparing with politicians but if Sean Brady was up for reelection he wouldn't get his deposit back, yet the subservient are happy to have him as their leader. Wouldn't happen in any other walk of life. As Muppet stated, this refusal of the church to do right by the people who suffered is burying the church. People are voting with their hearts and mind.

[johnneycool]

I'm beginning to wonder if some worship the church rather than god himself!

[Hardy]

Generally catholic church has and receives far too much criticism.There have been more than a few paedos in the GAA, and at least one in a high position who is or was accommodated in the best seats post conviction.Does that mean the GAA and all of us in it are corrupt?

It is impossible for an institution with a worldwide membership to be controlled by one man from a small part of Rome,therefore the Vatican is quite right to lay the blame on the churches in the different countries.

Time to blame the relatively few perpetrators and not the Church in general

You continually go out of your way to post stuff trivialising the child rape cover-up conspiracies. You serially glorify the shameless antics of Brady, the chief cover-up organiser in your diocese. I can only think of Willie Frazer when I look for someone with a comparable ability to mix the malicious with the idiotic.

Take your latest inane contribution, as quoted above. When did the GAA organise a systematic cover-up of child rape? What officials were moved from club to club, or from county to county so that the law wouldn't catch up with them? What resolution of congress established an official policy giving the GAA's rules in the Official Guide precedence over  the law of the land? Which GAA officials refused to co-operate with official enquiries or criminal investigations?

[AZOffaly]

Waste.Of.Time.

[muppet]

What information does the Pope have about alleged child abuse in a small parish in say the West of Ireland? Successive British and Irish governments refuse to release information about the 1974 Dublin bombings. Are all politicians corrupt?

If the authorities have sufficient information about child abuse,arrest the suspects and compel their co operation.Plenty of clergy have appeared in court and have been convicted and jailed.I didn't hear any protests from any Bishops or Popes claiming they're innocent and calling for their release.

http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/more-documents-link-ratzinger-abuse-cases

The facts are out there Tony. You hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, unless of course it is from your enemy, in which case you hear all evil, see all evil and start a new thread about it.

No doubt you will jump up and down shouting bigot, but in all honesty it is people like you who deny everything and attack issues such as compensation for the Magdalene victims (how low can you get?) that get people's backs up more than anything.

[theskull1]

There have been more than a few paedos in the GAA, and at least one in a high position who is or was accommodated in the best seats post conviction. Does that mean the GAA and all of us in it are corrupt?

Who was this?  Michael Feeney?

Id be very surprised if that can be substantiated. If however there's truth in it, we should be up in arms.