Is it about time we grew up and stopped gloating about England's misfortunes?

[J70]

Trevor Brooking won an FA Cup.and was an England regular while playing in the 2nd Division.

[Wildweasel74]

Its not our fault these f**kers are usless, but there supporters think they can win the world cup every 4 years it comes round, then walloping in self pity and "what if" puts a smile on my face, if Costa Rica qualify in front of England and you have the supposed best league in the world,why  would anyone not smirk at their arrogance!

[laoislad]

Its not our fault these f**kers are usless, but there supporters think they can win the world cup every 4 years it comes round, then walloping in self pity and what if  puts  smile to my face, if Costa Rica qualify in font of you and you have the supposed best league in the world, would anymore not smirk at there arrogance!

Are you drunk?

[Syferus]

Seriously, the occupied shite has never been less true. Britain would dearly love the north to decide to join the rest of the island, it's costing them money supporting it.

Your 'enemies' now are your fellow Irishmen and women, no one else.

Wow, are you even Irish?

The only thing standing in the way of the now-mythical 'occupation' ending is a referendum. There's no army or martial law holding the north hostage. Everyone knows the referendum will pass in the south so the only thing anyone in the north have do to make a united Ireland a reality is get their own country men to want it. That not happening has very, very little to do with Britain now.

This isn't 1981 anymore. The world has moved on and there are just as many nationalists as loyalists who are willing to wallow in the empty rhetoric of the past. All they're doing is making what they want become more of a remote possibility by pushing away the very people they need to get on side to make a united Ireland a reality.

I like to see England flail on the field as much as the next man but I can separate the dead generations (or dying generations) of English that subjected Ireland to the well-chronicled horrors of the past and the England and Britain of today that are one of our closest (economic, cultural, geographic) and warmest allies. Even the Queen has managed to turn the bloody page. Why otherwise intelligent, articulate people on this island can't is a sad reflection on those people.

[Farrandeelin]

Unfortunately there aren't more nationalists in NI than loyalists then.

[Syferus]

Unfortunately there aren't more nationalists in NI than loyalists then.

Aye, but now that's all that's stopping this much-fought for united Ireland; democracy. That's a battle that can only be won with a far less insular attitude by a lot of nationalists. The north is still a big game of 'red vs. blue' in so many ways.

[Eamonnca1]

The only thing standing in the way of the now-mythical 'occupation' ending is a referendum. There's no army or martial law holding the north hostage. Everyone knows the referendum will pass in the south so the only thing anyone in the north have do to make a united Ireland a reality is get their own country men to want it. That not happening has very, very little to do with Britain now.

This isn't 1981 anymore. The world has moved on and there are just as many nationalists as loyalists who are willing to wallow in the empty rhetoric of the past. All they're doing is making what they want become more of a remote possibility by pushing away the very people they need to get on side to make a united Ireland a reality.

I like to see England flail on the field as much as the next man but I can separate the dead generations (or dying generations) of English that subjected Ireland to the well-chronicled horrors of the past and the England and Britain of today that are one of our closest (economic, cultural, geographic) and warmest allies. Even the Queen has managed to turn the bloody page. Why otherwise intelligent, articulate people on this island can't is a sad reflection on those people.

+1

[Eamonnca1]

Very insightful article here that explains why a lot of these attitudes exist, and why there's this contradictory Irish support for English clubs but hostility to the national team:

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/irelands-lovehate-relationship-with-english-football

[deiseach]

This isn't 1981 anymore. The world has moved on and there are just as many nationalists as loyalists who are willing to wallow in the empty rhetoric of the past. All they're doing is making what they want become more of a remote possibility by pushing away the very people they need to get on side to make a united Ireland a reality.

Another line of reasoning I've never understood, i.e. the idea that Irish Nationalism can somehow turn Unionists towards the possibility of a united Ireland by being less nationalistic. Can you elaborate on how that's meant to work?

[Eamonnca1]

I think the reasoning goes that if you stop shooting at people they'll be less hostile to your ideas.

[deiseach]

I think the reasoning goes that if you stop shooting at people they'll be less hostile to your ideas.

The British were not interested in notions of Irish independence until we started shooting at them.

[Hardy]

But we've sorted that. The British are now onside for a United Ireland. It's only Irish people who are opposing it now.

[deiseach]

But we've sorted that. The British are now onside for a United Ireland. It's only Irish people who are opposing it now.

The British people in Northern Ireland retain a veto over any settlement. They've accepted the current one, which is great. The killing has stopped. But should the time come when a majority in Northern Ireland support a united Ireland, you can expect violence and don't expect the British to abandon their own.

[Hardy]

But we've sorted that. The British are now onside for a United Ireland. It's only Irish people who are opposing it now.

The British people in Northern Ireland retain a veto over any settlement. They've accepted the current one, which is great. The killing has stopped. But should the time come when a majority in Northern Ireland support a united Ireland, you can expect violence and don't expect the British to abandon their own.

I agree with some of that. We can definitely expect violence, but the key question is whether the British consider the "British" in NI as their own any more. The Brits have decided they have no strategic interest in remaining in control of the North. Otherwise there would have been no Good Friday agreement. They have no emotional attachment to those in the North calling themselves British. Any violent opposition to reunification if/when the time comes will be in direct opposition to British state policy. Will they really support that?

[ziggysego]

But we've sorted that. The British are now onside for a United Ireland. It's only Irish people who are opposing it now.

The British people in Northern Ireland retain a veto over any settlement. They've accepted the current one, which is great. The killing has stopped. But should the time come when a majority in Northern Ireland support a united Ireland, you can expect violence and don't expect the British to abandon their own.

I agree with some of that. We can definitely expect violence, but the key question is whether the British consider the "British" in NI as their own any more. The Brits have decided they have no strategic interest in remaining in control of the North. Otherwise there would have been no Good Friday agreement. They have no emotional attachment to those in the North calling themselves British. Any violent opposition to reunification if/when the time comes will be in direct opposition to British state policy. Will they really support that?

I seem to recall reading in several sources that Loyalist would go to war if Britain pulled out of the north to go it alone, rather than be part of a united Ireland.

That was in the 1990s though, don't know what the current thinking is.