Derry v Donegal

[Farmer dam]

Funny how when donegal bring every man back to defend a lead in the dying minutes it's deemed rubbish and disgraceful yet if van Persie or Suarez clear the ball of the line in the last minute it's a stroke of genius.

[nrico2006]

Donegal weren't great yesterday, but I always expected them to beat Derry as we've seen Derry peak before for the league and back then they had better personnel.  Derry were never going to win yesterday without any forwards.  Donegal are not the team they were but anybody crying about their tactics and approach needs to wise up.  All that matters is whether you win or not, and if a team comes up with a strong strategy that results in victory more than defeat then it should be lauded not lambasted.  GAA people seem to be a very paranoid bunch, every week the majority of journalists or analysts are spouting on about 'this is what we want to see' or 'this is what you want to show to kids coming through'.  Everything seems to be about the showcasing and marketing of the game.  You don't se other sports analysts or journalists so worried about the possible expansion/image of the game.  I'd imagine Jim McGuiness shares a similar view, as most managers probably do.  If a team put 15 players within their 45 then its not their fault if the opposition cannot beat them.  Its up to the oppositions supposedly highly skilled managent team to come up with the means to better the oppotions approach.   

[Collie Brolly]

Don't know what McIver is complaining about McQuillan for.Derry can have no complaints whatsoever.Failed miserably once again when it came to the crunch.McIver trying to take the spotlight away from his own failings.

[screenexile]

Don't know what McIver is complaining about McQuillan for.Derry can have no complaints whatsoever.Failed miserably once again when it came to the crunch.McIver trying to take the spotlight away from his own failings.

The referee was terrible yesterday! I'm not saying it affected the result as there is no question Donegal were the better team but their tackling is barely legal and there were a number of times we should have had frees and didn't get them!

[cockahoop]

i disagree screen it could have made a differenc to the result,how many times was mckinless dragged down with no free given within scoring range?i reckon 3.
apart from 10 mins yesterday derry were playing very smart football which was working,people saying they should have played it in yesterday alot quicker obviously were not watching very closely,donegal had 11 - 12 players inside 30 yards and the couple of times we did kick it in at the start of the match donegal came straight out the field so that was never going to be a option.being patient and waiting for a shot at goal from 30 yards was working,after donegals scoring blitz we had to drive at them and break the line which young mckinlees tried to do but the lad just did not get the frees he deserved so it made a tough task nearly impossible.

[Fuzzman]

NRico you are right Donegal can play whatever they want within the rules and if they find a system that suits them and proves successful then the players and the fans will wade in behind that.
This is what has happened since Jim took over and they reached the promise land from nowhere.
So for Donegal it's great that they are suddenly back at the top table.

However, for MOST neutrals it's dire stuff to watch and if you have young kids who will be exposed to the world cup maybe for the first time next month, which do you think they'd rather be. Playing in a defensive system where if they do manage to beat their man then they've another 2 waiting to clatter them or be trying step overs and expressing themselves with freedom
The way Donegal play means that when you play them you can't play open attack minded football. You can't kick the ball in early or isolate your best player against his man. It discourages good attacking play and means to win you have to play conservatively
Is that the way you want to see the game going?
Some may argue that Tyrone or Armagh started down that path of dropping men back but no way to the same extent.

I can see Monaghan and Donegal being in the Ulster final again this year and whilst it is was fascinating to watch them battle it out last year, it's not how I wanna say GAA football played.
13 men behind the ball. Pass after pass sideways and backwards waiting for an opening. Then someone gets a shoulder as he handpasses as the ball spills, Donegal break at lighting pace Yippee and it's over the bar. Sorry doesn't do it for me. Yes part of my problem is they've done it to Tyrone 3 years in a row now and we can't beat it but I'd much rather play Down or Armagh or even Derry 10 times that Donegal once.
It will be interesting to see what Cavan do next

[Collie Brolly]

Don't know what McIver is complaining about McQuillan for.Derry can have no complaints whatsoever.Failed miserably once again when it came to the crunch.McIver trying to take the spotlight away from his own failings.

The referee was terrible yesterday! I'm not saying it affected the result as there is no question Donegal were the better team but their tackling is barely legal and there were a number of times we should have had frees and didn't get them!

Barely legal.Therefore open to some level of interpretation you might say?Had you said illegal you might have an argument(even taking bias into account),but most counties take all aspects of their game to the edge in Cship football.Isn't Ulster renowned for this and isn't that exactly what makes it watchable.

[magpie seanie]

Despite what I'm hearing back from the media I enjoyed the game. I do think again the referee was inconsistent. Pinged Donegal a lot in the first half but probably let them away with a few in the second half.

[thewobbler]

Despite what I'm hearing back from the media I enjoyed the game. I do think again the referee was inconsistent. Pinged Donegal a lot in the first half but probably let them away with a few in the second half.

I'm with you Seanie. Yes there were some long periods of lateral play, but it had a comeback, some outstanding  scores, some fine fielding, and some exemplary tackles, hits and blocks. Put a hurling commentator in charge of such drama and they'd tell you we are in store for a vintage summer. Football is a tougher audience, so it seems.

[Whitnail]

Some good points Fuzzy.
I think that Dublin ,Cork , Mayo and Possibly Kerry and maybe even  Kildare could beat us playing open or expansive football right now if they wanted.

When it comes to the Ulster Championship with so many teams at a  very similar level , how many Ulster teams have really played wide open  expansive football against each other? Recently one of the few games that come to mind was the first game last year at Celtic park between Derry & Down and that was a bit of a rarity cause the 2nd game these countries played in the back door wasn't very expansive or open at all.
Obviously you mentioned Armagh  & Tyrone starting this blanket defense system (with lots of hand passing) with the prime objective of getting out of Ulster by hook or crook ...and managers were completly shameless & unapologetic about it ,just as Jim is now.
But in fairness for the mist part that's the way it's been in  Ulster since Armagh and Tyrone cynically started this . These counties would then expand their football a  bit in the all Ireland quarter finals or against counties down the country. Just as Donegal did in 2012 (please ,let's forget 2011!).
If for eg Dublin could wipe the floor with us tomorrow playing attacking expansive open football , why can't Tyrone do the same? Afterall it's Mickey's choice is it not?

I'm not  a huge fan of watching us with so many men behind the ball, hunting in packs and deliberately setting out to disrupt the opposition ,  especially in the first halt of games. But then I think our defenseve system is very overrated anyway and have said before that it's beatable by running through it at pace with quick offloading and accurate shooting from distance. The analysts on the Sunday game last night I thought were helping Jim out by giving our defense the  almost myth status it had in 2012. Last year when Tyrone played us they scuffed and wasted so many point/goal scoring chances through completely their own making  not cause our mythical defense closed the door.

[J70]

Think you're overcompensating a bit there Withnail. While not playing particularly well for much of the game, Donegal harried the hell out of Tyrone last year, just as in the previous two years. In each game Tyrone went on half-hour stretches in the second half without a score. That cannot be just written off as poor shooting. Think back to the 2003 AI semi final when McEniff copied Armagh and Tyrone and tried out the blanket defence on a once-off and almost shocked Armagh. Armagh were forced to shoot from all sorts of angles, under pressure and often out the field that day, and were panicing and rushing their shots, especially in the first half. If McDonnell hadn't outfielded McCready that one time for their goal late on, it probably would have worked.

Monaghan definitely did expose Donegal's gameplan last year with their own intensity and physicality, but the writing was on the wall for Donegal before that when it took a breathtaking display of marksmanship from a McFadden living on crumbs to squeeze them through against a similarly lined-up Down. They just looked tired and done out. I would like another crack at Monaghan this year, assuming injuries, form and AI hangover are not going to be such a big factor again. Of course, Monaghan being to us what Tyrone are to them, we may just curl up into the foetal position at the sight of their jerseys no matter how good we're playing! Dublin etc... yeah, they'll run at us, shoot (and score) from all angles and make shreds of the blanket defence. But are we seriously contenders at their level anyway?

[imtommygunn]

Some good points Fuzzy.
I think that Dublin ,Cork , Mayo and Possibly Kerry and maybe even  Kildare could beat us playing open or expansive football right now if they wanted.

When it comes to the Ulster Championship with so many teams at a  very similar level , how many Ulster teams have really played wide open  expansive football against each other? Recently one of the few games that come to mind was the first game last year at Celtic park between Derry & Down and that was a bit of a rarity cause the 2nd game these countries played in the back door wasn't very expansive or open at all.
Obviously you mentioned Armagh  & Tyrone starting this blanket defense system (with lots of hand passing) with the prime objective of getting out of Ulster by hook or crook ...and managers were completly shameless & unapologetic about it ,just as Jim is now.
But in fairness for the mist part that's the way it's been in  Ulster since Armagh and Tyrone cynically started this . These counties would then expand their football a  bit in the all Ireland quarter finals or against counties down the country. Just as Donegal did in 2012 (please ,let's forget 2011!).
If for eg Dublin could wipe the floor with us tomorrow playing attacking expansive open football , why can't Tyrone do the same? Afterall it's Mickey's choice is it not?

I'm not  a huge fan of watching us with so many men behind the ball, hunting in packs and deliberately setting out to disrupt the opposition ,  especially in the first halt of games. But then I think our defenseve system is very overrated anyway and have said before that it's beatable by running through it at pace with quick offloading and accurate shooting from distance. The analysts on the Sunday game last night I thought were helping Jim out by giving our defense the  almost myth status it had in 2012. Last year when Tyrone played us they scuffed and wasted so many point/goal scoring chances through completely their own making  not cause our mythical defense closed the door.

I wouldn't disagree with that. I thought Derry moved the ball at pace about 3 oor 4 times in that game yesterday and each time they moved the ball at pace(men breaking tackles I mean) then they got points of it.

[SouthDublinBro]

Remember when Colm McFadden was seriously considered one of the top forwards in the country?

LOL the lad wouldn't start for New York. Donegal are a spent force. Can see Antrim/Fermanagh pulling off an upset.

[Fuzzman]

So that's all we needed.

FoSB can you see can you get Mickey a set of Monaghan jerseys from O'Neills fsctory in Strabane

[ck]

I've great time for Donegal as county and it's people but let's call a spade a spade. What we witnessed yesterday was our game bastardised in its most negative form. I watched it with two 10 year olds who play and live the game. Mid 2nd half they were in the garden playing soccer.

I don't blame Jim McGuinness or players. They know their many limitations and are covering them well but let's face it. The challenge for the GAA is to develop our rules to ensure the game remains the competitive spectacle that it can be attractive to young players. I hate Rugby league as a game, yesterday I watched Rugby league disguised as Gaelic football. It was bloody awful to watch.